[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] From Tribe to Void: The Hardest Part Isn’t Deployment” 🪖🕳️🌍

[00:00:00] Bruce Anthony: Supporting the troops means caring beyond the uniform. We gonna get into it. [00:00:05] Let's get it.

[00:00:10] [00:00:15]

[00:00:17] Welcome to Unsolicited Perspectives 🎙️✨📢

[00:00:17] Bruce Anthony: Welcome, first of all, welcome. This is [00:00:20] Unsolicited Perspectives. I'm your host, Bruce Anthony. Here to lead the conversation in important events and [00:00:25] topics that are shaping today's society. Join the conversation to follow us wherever you get your audio [00:00:30] podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for our video podcast, YouTube exclusive content and our YouTube [00:00:35] membership.

[00:00:35] Bruce Anthony: Rate review, like, comment, share, share with your friends, [00:00:40] share with your family. Hell even share with your enemies. On today's [00:00:45] episode,

[00:00:45] How Veterans Rebuild Identity, Meaning, and Mission with Garret Biss 🧠🎯🔥

[00:00:45] Bruce Anthony: I'll be interviewing Garrett Biss. We're gonna be talking about veterans and life [00:00:50] after service, but that's enough of the intro. Let's get to the show.

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[00:01:02] Bruce Anthony: [00:00:55] [00:01:00] We hear a lot in this country about supporting the [00:01:05] military and supporting the troops, and on paper that sounds like a shared value, something everyone [00:01:10] agrees on. But most of the time that support gets translated into defense budgets, [00:01:15] slogans, and symbolic gestures. What doesn't get enough attention? Is [00:01:20] what happens after service when people come home and have to figure out how to live a [00:01:25] completely different life in a world that doesn't always know what to do with them, because real [00:01:30] support doesn't end with a uniform or deployment.

[00:01:33] Supporting Troops Means More Than Patriotic Slogans 🪖🧠📣

[00:01:33] Bruce Anthony: It shows up in how we [00:01:35] help people transition, how we talk about mental health, and whether we're willing to look at the [00:01:40] parts of service that don't fit neatly into patriotic sound bites. [00:01:45] That's what today's conversation is about. My guest. Garrett Biss. He's a former [00:01:50] Marine Corps pilot who spent years working with veterans around recovery, identity, and [00:01:55] life after service. His work focuses less on labels and more on helping [00:02:00] people reconnect with themselves, their sense of purpose. What comes next? Today [00:02:05] we're talking about the transition out of the military, the quiet struggles that don't always [00:02:10] get named, and what meaningful support actually looks like beyond the gratitude and [00:02:15] beyond surface level solutions.

[00:02:17] Bruce Anthony: This isn't about easy answers. It's [00:02:20] about listening, understanding, and creating space for conversations we don't [00:02:25] have often enough. And without further ado, here's my [00:02:30] interview with Garrett.

[00:02:31] Bruce Anthony: As it said at the top, I'm here with Garrett bis. BIS is a, a [00:02:35] veteran, somebody who was in the military, a Marine. On top of that, Garrett, when we get [00:02:40] off air, I'll tell you the time I accidentally got, took the wrong train station and ended up in Quantico, [00:02:45] but we are here talking.

[00:02:46] Garret Biss: That's easy to do. A lot of people do that. You wouldn't, you'd be surprised.

[00:02:49] Bruce Anthony: I [00:02:50] was scared to death, but we are here to talk about you [00:02:55] and your work, and this is a conversation I told you off. Air is so very, [00:03:00] very important to me. People talk so much about supporting the troops and supporting the [00:03:05] military, but when it comes to veteran support, that, that's where I feel this country is [00:03:10] really lacking.

[00:03:11] Bruce Anthony: And so this conversation is important because [00:03:15] it's important for everybody to realize that when you say supporting the troops, it's [00:03:20] not just the uniform, the deployments, it's about when they come [00:03:25] home and they're no longer active and they're civilians and [00:03:30] recognizing that life, it's a little bit difficult for them.

[00:03:33] Bruce Anthony: So we're gonna talk about that and [00:03:35] I'm excited. So thank you for coming on the show.

[00:03:37] Garret Biss: Hey, I'm excited to be here and I appreciate you for [00:03:40] hosting conversations like this. You know, there's a lot of people that suffer with some darkness and, and hard and [00:03:45] challenging times, and everyone has their own life experiences, their own journey that they're going through. So [00:03:50] those challenges might look different.

[00:03:51] Garret Biss: They might present differently. But I love bringing a conversation just back to the [00:03:55] human elements. You know, there's only so many emotions that we feel as humans, and there's many common dark and [00:04:00] positive emotions that we all feel. They just show up differently and at different times. But I love the opportunity to kind of [00:04:05] bring this conversation back, not just to talk about the veterans.

[00:04:07] Garret Biss: That's extremely important to me and always wanna serve [00:04:10] veterans. But I always try to share things in every conversation that people can apply to their [00:04:15] own life, gain some insight that can be helpful in their own life. So I'm looking forward to digging into that as well. [00:04:20]

[00:04:20] Trauma Isn’t a Competition Between People 🧩❤️‍🩹⚖️

[00:04:20] Bruce Anthony: Yeah, I, I think that's an interesting point because too often in our [00:04:25] society we get in trauma comparison and obviously, uh, when it comes to ve [00:04:30] veterans and people in the military and then civilians, like the trauma is [00:04:35] different. But that doesn't mean that the trauma. Is it still extremely [00:04:40] traumatic to that particular individual and the human element and compassion needs to be [00:04:45] shared across the board.

[00:04:46] Bruce Anthony: So I love that you brought that up, but

[00:04:48] Garret Biss: Because that's the thing, is that the worst thing [00:04:50] that happened to somebody is the worst thing that happened to 'em. So when you have your whole kind of calibration for where [00:04:55] you are in your life and the darkest thing, like the worst thing that's happened to you is the worst thing that's happened to you.

[00:04:59] Garret Biss: So that [00:05:00] kind of sets, uh, you know, for, for one, it has implications, you know, emotionally and psychologically [00:05:05] that you know, for things that might linger. It's also, you know, your unique framework [00:05:10] for the obstacles and challenges that you face. And if your hardest thing was different than my hardest [00:05:15] thing, it doesn't mean that the challenges or the complications that come from that is going to be [00:05:20] different.

[00:05:20] Garret Biss: Uh, so I think, you know, that's an important thing to remember, especially as we're interacting with others and [00:05:25] as we're trauma comparing or experience comparing. Yeah, your, your situation might've been different, [00:05:30] but that was your worst situation. And my worst situation is also affecting me in a, in a certain [00:05:35] way.

[00:05:35] Bruce Anthony: Yeah, absolutely. Right. Okay. I always love to start every [00:05:40] interview with, let's go back. Right. When you think back to when you [00:05:45] were the young, the young gear, before you got into uniform, before you were in the [00:05:50] cock pick, before you got the rank, what parts of your upbringing or early life do [00:05:55] you think shaped the man you eventually became?

[00:05:58] Garret Biss: Yeah, it's a great question. So, I [00:06:00] don't know. It'd be fun to get my mom on here for a little while to gain her insight on it. But I think, let's see, I [00:06:05] think she would say that I was a little bit mischievous. A little bit of, uh, uh, en [00:06:10] encouraged to test boundaries and, and see what I could get away with, which terrifies me because. [00:06:15] I have a, uh, I have a 16-year-old daughter, but we recently had a 4-year-old boy and now a four month [00:06:20] old child. So for one, I think that boys and girls are of a different species. I mean, trying to deal with a [00:06:25] 4-year-old running around the house is a lot different than, than what a girl was like. But I think that I'm gonna [00:06:30] get, uh, get some retribution for my.

[00:06:32] Garret Biss: My childhood behavior. I see some [00:06:35] early indicators in my son, but I would, yeah, constantly testing boundaries and exploring. I mean, I'd go [00:06:40] outside all the time, just wanna be lost in the woods or creating things and, and, you know, playing with friends [00:06:45] or testing the boundaries of maybe how far away I could go from the house before.

[00:06:49] Garret Biss: Uh, it would, it would [00:06:50] cause some problems. It was one time when I. I'll have to ask my mom again. I think it was, I don't [00:06:55] know, five, six years old or something. I rode my bike about a mile and a half away from the house to go to an ice [00:07:00] cream store. So, uh, she wasn't very pleased with me when I got home. But I think that's, you know, [00:07:05] maybe I, I tempered that a little bit, uh, to conform to adult expectations, but I still think there's [00:07:10] an element of that, that that lingers this kind of curiosity on.

[00:07:14] Garret Biss: You know, [00:07:15] what are the boundaries? What are, you know, what, what? And generally, what does the world say we should or shouldn't do? We [00:07:20] should or shouldn't have? Uh, what, what kind of outcomes should we expect? And [00:07:25] today, anytime I hear the word should, either when I'm thinking it myself [00:07:30] or when I hear somebody tell me that either you should have or you have to have. Now it [00:07:35] triggers in me this like inquisitive nature. Like, okay, where, where does that come from? Is that true? Is that [00:07:40] valid? Before I conform to it, let me at least test it and experiment with it to see if that's, uh, [00:07:45] something that I need to guide my life by. Yeah.

[00:07:47] Bruce Anthony: It kind of sounds like, you know, [00:07:50] pushing boundaries, also pushing yourself. Do you think that that [00:07:55] led you to the military? What led you to decide to join the Marine Corps? [00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Garret Biss: Yeah, that's a

[00:08:00] Why I Chose to Join the Marine Corps 🫡🧭🔥

[00:08:00] Garret Biss: great question. So a couple different things, really. I don't know, three or four different reasons I joined the Marines. [00:08:05] One, I had no idea what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So at 17, 18 years old, I figured, [00:08:10] well, let me go surf for a couple years in the Marine Corps and maybe I'll figure it out.

[00:08:13] Garret Biss: I did have some inclinations to go to [00:08:15] college, but I had no idea how I'd pay for it. So I thought, all right, there's a bonus. Maybe they'll gimme some, some money to help [00:08:20] pay for college. And also there was this interesting thing I noticed that [00:08:25] anytime I spoke with, you know, this is when I was 13 up through high school.

[00:08:28] Garret Biss: Anytime I spoke with [00:08:30] somebody that was a veteran, whether it was Vietnam or World War ii, [00:08:35] I realized as they're expressing their experience, you know, something seemed to change about [00:08:40] their, about their affect, about their attitude, and I remember. So often somebody would share [00:08:45] stories about their time in uniform and recall them with such vivid detail [00:08:50] that I realized I didn't really understand what it was about that experience that Im, that that created [00:08:55] such an imprint on that individual.

[00:08:57] Garret Biss: But I realized the only way to really figure that out for myself was to [00:09:00] to, you know, put on the uniform and go, go find out. And then back to the testing boundaries piece. I also [00:09:05] realized that. I, I, I graduated high school a couple months early. I, I went through an adult education [00:09:10] program and graduated a little early and then thought maybe I had six or eight months before I went to the Marines.

[00:09:14] Garret Biss: [00:09:15] But there was some behaviors and some, uh, things that were going on where I realized like, maybe, [00:09:20] maybe I should go ahead and accelerate that. So I called my recruiter. I was like, Hey, can you get me down there? And the next couple of weeks, I [00:09:25] don't think I can last until August

[00:09:26] Bruce Anthony: Where are you originally from?

[00:09:29] Garret Biss: from [00:09:30] Wilmington, Delaware.

[00:09:31] Bruce Anthony: Not that far from me. Okay. I, I'm a little familiar, uh, with Wilmington, [00:09:35] Delaware, and you don't need to get into detail, but you said that you, you might have [00:09:40] been, you might have been getting into a little bit of trouble. That's the reason why you went into the military [00:09:45] earlier. Was it healthy, teenage risky trouble [00:09:50] or was it something that you think, all right, I might not get to go to the [00:09:55] military 'cause I might be someplace else.

[00:09:57] Garret Biss: Yeah, great question. So. In [00:10:00] indicators of all of those things. So normal, I guess, child behavior not, not preferred child [00:10:05] behavior, but you know, normal experimenting with things. Really just, you know, a bored and idle [00:10:10] mind is a terrible thing to have. So, you know, staying up all hours, doing, doing whatever I could [00:10:15] trying to engage with, with whoever I could engage with.

[00:10:18] Garret Biss: I think I only went before a [00:10:20] judge one time, so I don't know that that, you know, there, there, there was some early indicators there that maybe I [00:10:25] might take a different path.

[00:10:26] Bruce Anthony: Mm-hmm. So. You go into the military, [00:10:30] obviously that gives you structure. What was kind of your experience, and you don't need to go into detail 'cause some of it [00:10:35] might be, you know, you can't talk about it, but what [00:10:40] was your experience climbing up the ranks? So joining and then climbing up [00:10:45] the ranks in the Marine Corps.

[00:10:47] How Boot Camp Turns Strangers Into Family 🤝🪖🏠

[00:10:47] Garret Biss: Yeah. I think one thing and, and, [00:10:50] uh, I think a lot of service members will echo this, that very quickly, you notice how [00:10:55] profound a sense of belonging and community you have in the military and [00:11:00] within a couple of months, you know that that old version of who you were, once you go through that, that basic [00:11:05] training or the bootcamp, uh, you make a tremendous shift.

[00:11:09] Garret Biss: The only [00:11:10] other people that can understand that shift of what you've gone through. You know, some of the struggles, some of the strains, some of [00:11:15] the, uh, exertion that you've put, some of the internal battles or internal [00:11:20] obstacles that you've been pushed through as you grow into the service member that you've become.

[00:11:24] Garret Biss: The only other [00:11:25] individuals that understand that are people that have also been in the uniform. So it's a beautiful thing because it creates [00:11:30] this very tight bond, this really tight sense of community. But it also [00:11:35] separates you from the community that you've come from because now you are something different.

[00:11:39] Garret Biss: You've been [00:11:40] through different experiences. So that's. That's something that, you know, that, that really [00:11:45] sticks with you. You know, even while I was in the uniform or even now as a veteran, I mean, if I go into [00:11:50] an environment and there's some other veteran, or there was some other Marine in that environment, in a store, in a [00:11:55] restaurant, like even if they're not in uniform, you just kind of get a feel, you get a sense, you, you know, [00:12:00] that that's, hey, that's somebody that's part of my tribe.

[00:12:02] Garret Biss: So it's a beautiful thing. And then, and then with that closeness [00:12:05] and with that support and with that brotherhood or sisterhood that develops, it's amazing what [00:12:10] people. Can do, like what, what they're willing to do for one [00:12:15] another. The kind of hardships that they're willing to lean into, the amount of sacrifice or suffering that they're willing to [00:12:20] endure because they know it's in service of something greater than themselves.

[00:12:23] Garret Biss: Of course, the country, of [00:12:25] course the military branch, but at all the way down at the myopic level in service of those [00:12:30] people that are to my left and my right. So it's, it's, it's beautiful to, to. To kind of always [00:12:35] see that or always have opportunities where you're experiencing that, where people are kind of pushing beyond the bounds of their [00:12:40] limits of exertion or tiredness or hunger.

[00:12:43] Garret Biss: Coming up with creative [00:12:45] solutions, solving things together you know, and, and doing that in a way that's, that's of service. So it's [00:12:50] really needs to be a part of that tribe. And that also sets us up for, which [00:12:55] I'm sure we'll get into, sets us up for the consequences of the cost that's paid when you ultimately, uh, leave [00:13:00] that tribe and become a veteran.

[00:13:02] Bruce Anthony: I don't. It simplistic, but it seems like what you're [00:13:05] describing is bonding through adversity that makes you family. So family bonding through [00:13:10] adversity. Only people that have gone through that specific [00:13:15] bootcamp training, the whole, the whole run would have that type [00:13:20] of bond even if they weren't in it together.

[00:13:23] Bruce Anthony: I know what you went through. [00:13:25] Hey, we're family. That's kind of what I'm getting from what

[00:13:29] Garret Biss: Right. [00:13:30] And then it's for all the comfort that you get and all the things that you can say to another person without having to [00:13:35] say a word at all. Like all the things that they get about you and that you get about them [00:13:40] creates a real sense of psychological safety that, you know, you know, I'm surrounded by my tribe.

[00:13:44] Garret Biss: They get [00:13:45] me, I know what they're going through. They know what I'm going through. They could look out for me and I can look out for [00:13:50] them as well. Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a beautiful thing and that's one of the reasons that our, our [00:13:55] military forces are as lethal and as effective as they are because of all that's done.

[00:13:59] Garret Biss: Through [00:14:00] initial basic training and then through training, uh, evolutions throughout service to really [00:14:05] reinforce that and build, uh, build that bond.

[00:14:08] Bruce Anthony: So after retiring [00:14:10] from

[00:14:10] When Civilian Life Suddenly Feels Foreign 🌍😶‍🌫️🧳

[00:14:10] Bruce Anthony: the Marines, there was clearly a moment where things shifted for you [00:14:15] eternally, and we'll get into the details of that. Now, later. [00:14:20] Whenever you're ready. Uh, yeah. What was that period and when [00:14:25] did you realize something deeper needed to change? So you're, you're, you're retiring, [00:14:30] you're out of your tribe, and now you're back [00:14:35] into the society that you were in before you joined that tribe.

[00:14:39] Garret Biss: [00:14:40] Right.

[00:14:40] Bruce Anthony: What was that shift like for you? Eternally

[00:14:43] Garret Biss: a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of [00:14:45] shock there and, and a lot of, uh, a lot of experiences that were really unexpected, but even, even. [00:14:50] Months and you know, a year or two leading up to that retirement, there was a [00:14:55] lot of concern and, and you know, kind of contemplation about [00:15:00] who will I be and how will I perform, how do I stack up in the civilian world?

[00:15:03] Garret Biss: You know, I've been in the Marines. [00:15:05] I've been in the Marines for 16, 17 years at that point. I knew how to be a Marine. [00:15:10] I knew what was expected of me. I knew how to perform to the standards that that were expected. I knew how to get [00:15:15] promoted. I got, you know, accolades or awards for certain things. So I knew that I, you know, at least over time, I learned how to [00:15:20] function well and be a, be a, a good and valuable Marine.

[00:15:23] Garret Biss: But I always questioned, like, [00:15:25] does any of this translate? Beyond these walls, like, does any of this translate in the, in the, in the real [00:15:30] world? So there was a bit of insecurity even before making that transition of, [00:15:35] you know, what if this is transferable, what if this maps to the things that I'll experience outside of here and, [00:15:40] and, and what will that journey be like?

[00:15:41] Garret Biss: And then when you transition out of the military, it was [00:15:45] also something that was very unexpected. I didn't, I didn't realize that the loss of that, that [00:15:50] bond and that connection was gonna be so abrupt and, and so profound. At that [00:15:55] point in my career, I was living out in town, so I was living in the city near the base that I, that I was stationed.

[00:15:59] Garret Biss: [00:16:00] So I was already living in the community. I was shopping in the community, I was going to dinner in the community. I had [00:16:05] friends that weren't in the military, so I had connections in the community. So I didn't, I, I didn't [00:16:10] realize how awkward it was going to be when I was no longer a part of the service member [00:16:15] community. I was still surrounded by the same people doing the same things, but something about it [00:16:20] felt different, and it took me a little while to realize what that was, but it was that, that, that [00:16:25] loss of sense of belonging, like now I, even though I was in my home community or even in, you know, [00:16:30] in the town that I'd lived in, in some ways I felt like I was in a foreign land, in [00:16:35] a foreign place.

[00:16:35] Garret Biss: Like now I had this different identity and I was still really trying to figure out what this new identity [00:16:40] was. So my place in the world and my place in the community wasn't [00:16:45] firmly established, and that created a lot of kind of internal struggle.

​

[00:16:57] Bruce Anthony: [00:16:50] [00:16:55] It is funny that you bring up the word internal because as [00:17:00] I was watching your Ted talk, you talk about the internal void, which is what you're, just, what [00:17:05] you just described. That internal void with inside of you that you're like, what? [00:17:10] What am I now? I used to be this, I was this for so long. I'm not that [00:17:15] anymore.

[00:17:16] Bruce Anthony: I can't be that anymore. I had to become something different, but I don't know what, [00:17:20] Yeah, that's a

[00:17:22] Garret Biss: of it. And then, you know, and, and when you go through a [00:17:25] transition like that and you lose a, you know, a major foundation. So back that, that's what I really wanted to share in the TEDx [00:17:30] talk was this understanding from that human experience perspective. Like what happens when you [00:17:35] transition outta the military and what I, what I had.

[00:17:36] Garret Biss: Came to, to really understand and appreciate [00:17:40] is that we have fundamental needs for connection. Part of that need for connection is a need for [00:17:45] authenticity to be able to establish and maintain connections and yet show up as we [00:17:50] are, uh, you know, as, as our true self not being forced to wear masks and show up as a version of [00:17:55] ourself trying to be accepted.

[00:17:56] Garret Biss: And we have a real strong sense for meaning or a need for [00:18:00] meaning when that connection is disrupted or any of these basic human needs are [00:18:05] not fulfilled. This really puts us or drives us into a survival state. You know, we talk a [00:18:10] lot about the fight or flight state. One of the things that happens when you make that shift, or if you're stuck in this, in [00:18:15] this, uh, heightened state, is that all of your, all of your attention, all of your energy [00:18:20] goes to survival.

[00:18:21] Garret Biss: I mean, instead of being able to see things [00:18:25] more broadly and and, and maintain a proper perspective about things, all of your [00:18:30] attention is focused on what's the next potential threat that's gonna come up? What's something that might take me [00:18:35] out? What's something that I need to avoid? How do I need to maneuver so that I can operate in this place and not be threatened?[00:18:40]

[00:18:40] Garret Biss: And when that happens, really it, you know, one way to think about is, you know, if you've ever used a, [00:18:45] uh, a, a, a camera with a little zoom lens on it that you have to twist, when you twist that zoom lens, it [00:18:50] really, you know, it zooms in on, and a lot of the field of vision that you had now disappears because [00:18:55] you're trying to focus on one thing in the center of the aperture.

[00:18:57] Garret Biss: And that's really a, a way that I understand our [00:19:00] perspective and our attention as we're in that stress state. So now I'm not able to see [00:19:05] everything for what it is. Good and bad, you know, in, in the same frame. [00:19:10] All I can see of those, you know, is where I'm trying to focus for specific threats. So this is something I think [00:19:15] he gets a lot of people stuck.

[00:19:16] Garret Biss: And if you can't, if you're not aware of this and you're not [00:19:20] encouraged or shown how to work on this, and you get stuck in that zoomed in state. Then your whole [00:19:25] world just becomes defined by these negative things that you're trying to, you know, that [00:19:30] you're trying to address or that you're trying to battle.

[00:19:31] Garret Biss: And that's a lot what I experienced when I transitioned out. You know, I [00:19:35] lost that sense of belonging, that sense of meaning. It created a tremendous void inside of me. And then I was [00:19:40] stuck in this fight or flight state, and this really high, you know, this heightened state of alert. So [00:19:45] instead of being able to see everything that was true about me. I tended to [00:19:50] just see the things that I didn't like about me, or the fears or the worries or the potential, you know, [00:19:55] threats. Whether it was financial relationships you know, health related threats. And that's, [00:20:00] that's what defined. My whole perspective. So that seemed like it was the entirety of the [00:20:05] world that I was living in.

[00:20:06] Garret Biss: So a lot of the work that I do now with veterans or anybody that's in recovery is helping them [00:20:10] come out of that heightened state, you know, come outta that high stress state and begin to expand that [00:20:15] aperture so they can remember. This is not saying that yes, this is not saying that you don't have defects, that you [00:20:20] don't have weaknesses, that you haven't made some mistakes in the past.

[00:20:22] Garret Biss: This is saying that. It's [00:20:25] also true that there's many beautiful things about you. You've had many wins, many successes. You've [00:20:30] developed many strengths, and it's fair to you and it's necessary for your recovery journey or [00:20:35] your growth or healing journey to be able to see all of that and to be aware of all of that,

[00:20:39] Bruce Anthony: Hmm. [00:20:40] Uh, it seems like what you're describing to me, that tunnel vision, that that horse [00:20:45] with blinders on, that even if you have people that are close to you because you [00:20:50] have, you're hyperfocused on your flaws, you feel abs. Alone, [00:20:55] and that's even compounded by the fact that you used to be a part of this tribe that you were around [00:21:00] all the time, that you're not around anymore.

[00:21:01] Bruce Anthony: Am I getting that right? Is is that kind of [00:21:05] how you felt? Like I'm alone no matter who's around me right now?

[00:21:09] Garret Biss: [00:21:10] Certainly, I mean, just imagine, you know, if you're, you know, let's say you're going on a trip and they have to do an [00:21:15] emergency landing in a, in a foreign country, and maybe you're there with a, you know, a couple friends of yours, but [00:21:20] you were, you were joking and laughing and everybody was having a great time and feeling a, you know, sense of inner [00:21:25] peace.

[00:21:25] Garret Biss: But now you land in this foreign zone and you don't. Know anything around you, you don't know what's a [00:21:30] threat. You don't know, uh, who you can trust. If you can trust anything at all, you don't know what, what might take you [00:21:35] out. You know, you need to get your basic needs met. So now all the sense of peace and connection and everything that [00:21:40] came from those that were around you now, it's okay.

[00:21:42] Garret Biss: I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm just looking for threats. I'm just trying [00:21:45] to survive right now. So, even though those things. You'll be around you. You might have the same clothes on [00:21:50] that you were grateful for, you know, two hours prior you might have, you know, all the things going on at home that, [00:21:55] that you were grateful for and might be very, uh, uh, uh, aware of different strengths that you have and [00:22:00] things that are going well in your life.

[00:22:01] Garret Biss: But now you're in survival mode. You're in some, you know, some foreign place with [00:22:05] all these foreign things around you, and you, and you become hyperfocused on, I just need to survive [00:22:10] this moment. So what's the next potential threat that could take me out? What's the next, uh, what's the next gap that I [00:22:15] need to be aware of?

[00:22:15] Garret Biss: So it doesn't become a threat.

[00:22:17] Bruce Anthony: And that's your training. That's what [00:22:20] they teach you in the military because every decision or majority of decisions are life and death. You [00:22:25] have to think in that regard. So when you're an. The normal life, and [00:22:30] these aren't life or death decisions, you're, you're still placing that thought process [00:22:35] on every single decision and, and you talk about the internal void and you're going [00:22:40] through a tough transition and you start drinking more than [00:22:45] usual.

[00:22:45] When Drinking Becomes a Coping Mechanism 🍺🕳️🚨

[00:22:45] Bruce Anthony: How big of a problem did your drinking become?[00:22:50]

[00:22:50] Garret Biss: So I think, you know, it was a normal behavior that turned into a really, a maladaptive coping. I [00:22:55] mean, I, I, for many years I didn't have a healthy relationship with alcohol, uh, but I really saw [00:23:00] it. Thank goodness. I had a moment of awareness where I realized that, [00:23:05] oh, this is, this is alleviating too much pain.

[00:23:08] Garret Biss: Like, there's something in here that this [00:23:10] is doing, and I don't think it's, you know, I don't think it's good in this nature. It's [00:23:15] not something that's adding a little bit of joy or relieving a little bit of stress. It's, there's this deep void, there's this [00:23:20] tremendous pain in this, uh, source of fear inside of me. Numbing that [00:23:25] out might not be the best thing right now. Like if you have a broken leg, of course morphine will help you not feel the [00:23:30] pain, but it doesn't mean just take the morphine and everything's okay.

[00:23:32] Bruce Anthony: Correct.

[00:23:33] Garret Biss: I, I started to [00:23:35] understand and appreciate that my relationship, whether it was alcohol or whether it was, you know, spending money or [00:23:40] traveling or trying to escape the moment by going and enjoying something, I realized that [00:23:45] the. The potential damage and the harm that that could cause was a lot greater than [00:23:50] the potential joy that could come from it. So thank goodness I, you know, I, I recognized that and I wanted [00:23:55] to test myself, and I said, all right, is this a problem or is it not a problem? Well, [00:24:00] if I can give it up for 10 days.

[00:24:03] Garret Biss: Then that's at least an indicator that [00:24:05] maybe it's not a, you know, too severe of a problem. So let me start here. And then I ended up, you know, taking some 40 day [00:24:10] breaks just to test myself, not just with alcohol, but other things. Whether it was, you know, uh, [00:24:15] you know, you, I don't remember if Netflix was as, as big a thing, but whether it was, uh, you know, binging TV [00:24:20] or, uh, or, you know, eating sweets or anything else that I, that.

[00:24:23] Garret Biss: Fortunately [00:24:25] recognized, had some kind of numbing or some kind of escape, uh, effect to it. So I [00:24:30] would start to test myself and, you know, and thank goodness I did, because I think it slowed the downward [00:24:35] spiral. Of course, it didn't alleviate the challenges. Once you rele, once you remove that numbing mechanism, well then [00:24:40] you have to, you have to do some work, uh, to try to get back to a solid ground or to a better place.[00:24:45]

[00:24:45] Garret Biss: But, you know, fortunately for me, I, I was encouraged to test myself [00:24:50] and, and, uh, and, and, and try that out. See what would happen.

[00:24:53] Bruce Anthony: In your TEDx [00:24:55] talk, you told, you gave a stat that I was [00:25:00] floored by you said. That 22 [00:25:05] veterans a day commit suicide.

[00:25:08] Garret Biss: Yeah, that's been the average since [00:25:10] the, I believe since the nine 11 or since the G watt kind of generation of veterans. So we've lost. [00:25:15] I hate to mess up the, the stat, I think it's five or six times. The [00:25:20] number of people that have been lost in combat we've lost to, to suicide or to preventable death.

[00:25:24] Garret Biss: [00:25:25] And the common number that's been reported for years is 22 a day on average. [00:25:30] But what they recently found is that sometimes that number's as high as 40 or [00:25:35] 44 a day, especially when you start to include. [00:25:40] Unnecessary or preventable deaths due to accidental overdose or activities, you [00:25:45] know, high risk behaviors that resulted in somebody's death where maybe they weren't intentionally going out, trying to take their [00:25:50] own life, but they were doing something to numb that pain or to try to survive that moment, [00:25:55] and it was.

[00:25:56] Garret Biss: Numbing that pain was the greater priority in their life than, you know, than than [00:26:00] doing something safe. So we see this all the time with people that get into high speed accidents or they're, you know, out riding their [00:26:05] motorcycle at 120 miles an hour. These are all activities to try to deal with or to escape from [00:26:10] something, some battle that they're faced on the inside.

[00:26:12] Garret Biss: And maybe they weren't trying to take their own life, but they certainly weren't [00:26:15] trying not to. And I think these are all, you know, these are all indicators of, of very unfortunate, very sad, [00:26:20] preventable deaths that, that yeah, our veteran community shouldn't, uh, shouldn't [00:26:25] be bearing.

[00:26:26] Bruce Anthony: And you got to a point where you started having suicidal [00:26:30] thoughts in your TEDx, you told us. Story of hanging out with your buddy. Y'all were having a good [00:26:35] time, and you asked him, Hey man, that gun at the top of the closet, can you go [00:26:40] ahead and take that with the bullets? Can you explain to me or or, or explain to the [00:26:45] audience what it was that you were feeling in that time?

[00:26:47] Bruce Anthony: You've talked about that, the internal void, [00:26:50] but in that moment, what was it that you were feeling and the awareness [00:26:55] that you had to be like, you know what? No buddy, I need you to, I need you to take this away [00:27:00] from me

[00:27:00] Garret Biss: Yeah.

[00:27:00] The Night I Asked Him to Take the Gun 🔫🧊🛑

[00:27:00] Garret Biss: Yeah. The big shift for me was, I mean, I, I don't, I don't want to [00:27:05] make it sound like this is normal. I don't think it's healthy, but I do think it is normal for individuals to have [00:27:10] thoughts of, oh, I wonder if I would ever do that, or, I wonder how, maybe, how I would do that if I, if I were [00:27:15] to cross that line. So I, the, I would have those thoughts from time to time. [00:27:20] Then what really shook, kind of shook me awake, if you will, [00:27:25] was one day I realized that, oh, those thoughts, they're becoming more [00:27:30] regular and they don't have that kind of emotional like knee jerk response [00:27:35] when I feel that it's not like. Something I entertained for a second and then immediately pushed it out of my [00:27:40] mind.

[00:27:40] Garret Biss: It started to feel so normal and when I'd think about it or think about how I might do it or where or [00:27:45] when I might do it, when it seemed, when it started to feel as normal as like, Hey, I gotta remember to get milk [00:27:50] when I go to the grocery store and have that same kind of, you know, lack of emotional resonance [00:27:55] or emotional response inside I was, I was like, oh no, I don't.

[00:27:57] Garret Biss: I don't know what it looks like to be one [00:28:00] day or one hour before doing that act, but I know that 22 veterans a day are doing it. And I don't [00:28:05] know if I'm one day, one week, one month away from crossing that line and not being able to say [00:28:10] with certainty that I wouldn't do it was enough to kind of scare me and help me realize that I needed to do [00:28:15] something different.

[00:28:15] Garret Biss: So I didn't have the, I don't know, I didn't, I guess I didn't have the courage or the wherewithal [00:28:20] to, you know, to, to do everything. To protect myself. But I saw [00:28:25] an opportunity when a buddy came and we were, you know, talking about firearms and before he left I was [00:28:30] casually and, uh, you know, not trying to, uh, e excite any kind of reaction.

[00:28:34] Garret Biss: I was just like, Hey, [00:28:35] you know, would you mind, uh, you know where it is? Would you mind going and taking it and taking it with you when you go? [00:28:40] And that's all that I said. And this was, you know, this wasn't a veteran, but fortunately it was somebody who I had a [00:28:45] great relationship with. And he was the kind of guy where you don't need to explain anything.

[00:28:48] Garret Biss: He's not gonna ask any questions. [00:28:50] Just go and do it.

[00:28:51] Bruce Anthony: Yeah. This, we're gonna [00:28:55] get into your recovery, but I wanna talk about mentally [00:29:00] what point it had to get to for you to seek help because you talk about mentorship. [00:29:05] And, and because you're really big on mentorship, but what was the moment that you were like, okay, [00:29:10] I need help? Being a Marine, first of all, which is [00:29:15] different than, than every, everybody else, Marines, Navy, army, air [00:29:20] Force, Marines are different.

[00:29:21] Bruce Anthony: Okay. Being a Marine and then also being a [00:29:25] male because most males have a difficult time even asking for help. You have those two [00:29:30] things

[00:29:30] Garret Biss: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:31] Bruce Anthony: compounding each other. At what point did [00:29:35] you get to mentally, emotionally, and say to yourself, no, no, no, no. [00:29:40] I need help now.

[00:29:40] Garret Biss: Right.

[00:29:42] When Suffering Becomes Tied to Self-Worth 🧱😬🏅

[00:29:42] Garret Biss: So, so yeah, great question. So, one thing I [00:29:45] kind of, to preface all this, I do think that there's this interesting relationship that I've become aware of in [00:29:50] especially in the military context. So there's an unfair relationship I think that we have [00:29:55] between suffering and self-worth. So one of the things that we do, or one of the reasons that we [00:30:00] develop this sense of self-worth and value as a service member is because of some of that [00:30:05] suffering that we've endured in our training and some of the hardships that we've had to go through.

[00:30:09] Garret Biss: And I think [00:30:10] even as a society, those service members that we seem to respect or revere the [00:30:15] most. Our special operators, the seals, the delta, the Rangers. One of the things that we revere or [00:30:20] respect about them so much is that we know that the training that they've had to go through is something that [00:30:25] so few people can manage and, and, uh, successfully navigate.

[00:30:29] Garret Biss: So there's this [00:30:30] relationship there between, wow, this person can go so many days without sleep and so many days without food [00:30:35] and, and work in the most austere and uncomfortable environments, yet they can still perform, um, [00:30:40] as the elite operator that they are. But I think, you know, so it's certainly at the extreme at the, uh, [00:30:45] special operators, but I think that's also a trend that kind of carries through.

[00:30:48] Garret Biss: One of the things that we were very proud of in the Marine [00:30:50] Corps was doing things that were uncomfortable intentionally. They said if it wasn't raining, you weren't really [00:30:55] training. So it's like, if it's not cold and uncomfortable, then you're not really getting the maximum value or [00:31:00] benefit out of it.

[00:31:00] Garret Biss: And then a lot of our sense of worth and the value that we have as an individual or as a service member [00:31:05] comes from linking back on all, all those hardships that we had to endure. Well, the, the [00:31:10] challenge or the negative consequence of this is if you can create a relationship in your [00:31:15] mind that there's some connection between your ability to suffer.

[00:31:19] Garret Biss: The [00:31:20] value that you have as an individual, then this can, this, the, the negative consequence or the [00:31:25] cost of this is when you do begin to suffer. You also think, does this somehow [00:31:30] representative of the value that I have as an individual? Do I need to just suck it up and push on and try to. Put a [00:31:35] couple more things in my pack and try to push through this, or do I have to admit to myself or to [00:31:40] somebody else that I'm not as valuable as I thought I was.

[00:31:42] Garret Biss: So this in and of itself can be a major barrier to [00:31:45] individuals for, you know, for seeking that treatment or for, uh, accepting un [00:31:50] unnecessary and, and, and enduring suffering before they're willing to reach out. Reach. So, I [00:31:55] recognized this, you know, uh, it took me a long time to kinda look back and recognize maybe this was [00:32:00] something that, that was an internal driver do not reaching out.

[00:32:03] Bruce Anthony: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:04] Garret Biss: I [00:32:05] also had, you know, I also recognized an unhealthy relationship that I had with drinking with some other [00:32:10] behaviors or substances. But I was really avoidant to seeking treatment for [00:32:15] that, specifically.

[00:32:17] Bruce Anthony: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:18] Garret Biss: The way that I felt. And you know, [00:32:20] at the time and the way that I understood it was there were things that I was inviting into my life [00:32:25] and there were substances that I was using because the pain [00:32:30] or whatever it was I was trying to mask or cover it up was too great for me to fight it myself.

[00:32:34] Garret Biss: So [00:32:35] in some way, at least at that time, my, from my, that perspective, the thought of letting go of something [00:32:40] that was a necessary weapon I was using in this battle against this darkness inside of me, [00:32:45] it didn't make sense to me that that was the long-term solution to the problem that [00:32:50] I was having. Of course, that, you know, removing a, and I work with a lot of people from recovery now, and I [00:32:55] always think that, you know, sobriety or, or removing a drug of choice is a, is a fantastic first [00:33:00] step and a very important thing to accelerate the journey. But I also [00:33:05] recognize that beneath that there's something that needed to be worked on. There's something that needed to be healed. There was [00:33:10] some void inside of me that needed to be filled. So. [00:33:15] I don't know how I was open to it, just other than being at the right place in the right time and hearing the right thing.

[00:33:19] Garret Biss: You know, [00:33:20] sometimes you'll hear something mentioned in a couple different conversations or in a couple of different ways, and you [00:33:25] think, all right, is this a message for me from somewhere beyond? Is, uh, is God or is our [00:33:30] creator trying to share something with me? So kind of with that curiosity I leaned into and I started investigating [00:33:35] something.

[00:33:35] Garret Biss: I was turned onto the work of, uh, of I, a gentleman who became my mentor and a coach for [00:33:40] a period of time. And fortunately I leaned into it. I said, you know, I don't know how to solve these [00:33:45] problems. I don't know how to heal this pain, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna at least, uh, escape into something. So, uh, [00:33:50] maybe an unhealthy behavior in some regards when we escape the problems that we're, that are present in our [00:33:55] life and, and focus our attention somewhere.

[00:33:56] Garret Biss: But in this, uh, s. Specific instance, it really served me. I said, all right, there's all this [00:34:00] personal development stuff. There's this positive psychology stuff. I'm sure that somebody out there has an answer to [00:34:05] the problems that I'm going through. And I, and you know, as, as was evident in the number of, uh, veterans that we [00:34:10] lost every day, I knew that I wasn't the only one.

[00:34:12] Garret Biss: So I was only hoping that there was some [00:34:15] solution out there. So I really leaned into this journey of self discovery and, and working with my mentor. And [00:34:20] through that process, what he helped me do was he helped me. Fill that void. [00:34:25] So all of these cravings that I had and all this desire I had to escape.

[00:34:29] Garret Biss: What I [00:34:30] realized was after a period of time. Those cravings started to diminish, that void didn't seem [00:34:35] as present. Something seemed to be changing or shifting inside of me, and it was through the awareness that I [00:34:40] gained, you know, through that personal experience and then the awareness that I gained, kind of looking back on it, like, okay, what was that [00:34:45] journey all about?

[00:34:45] Garret Biss: How did that help me? And what, what di what was I introduced into, [00:34:50] uh, that could be of use to somebody else going through a similar challenge. And a lot of this was based on [00:34:55] the, the field of positive psychology. And what I've come to understand, or a way I like to describe traditional [00:35:00] psychology, which is what we think of as, you know, the clinic, uh, clinical care or treatment.

[00:35:04] Garret Biss: [00:35:05] Uh, the difference between tr traditional psychology and positive psychology, I think is greatly explained in a [00:35:10] metaphor. So imagine. A hot air balloon as representative of somebody's [00:35:15] potential or how well they're doing in their life. So if that hot air balloon is stuck at a certain altitude, [00:35:20] there's a couple things that are affecting the elevation of that, that hot air balloon.

[00:35:23] Garret Biss: There's the weights, there's the [00:35:25] sandbags, there's whatever is holding that thing down. And then there's also the amount of hot air [00:35:30] that's in the hot air balloon. What's the upward lift that's pulling this thing up? So I, when I understand a traditional [00:35:35] psychology is that it's really a focus on what are the symptoms, what are the diagnosis, the diseases, what is [00:35:40] it?

[00:35:40] Garret Biss: What are these negative things that are holding somebody down that are creating that extra friction or that extra load in their [00:35:45] life? And how do we start to. Mitigate some of those symptoms or treat some of those things that are holding [00:35:50] somebody back. What I was introduced to in really the nonclinical space, and this is what uh, [00:35:55] coaching psychology is really based on, is what are the things that are going well?

[00:35:58] Garret Biss: What are the strengths that [00:36:00] somebody has? What is the things that are, that are artery, creating that upward lift, and how do we leverage that to [00:36:05] get to a better place so they can both, you know, they can compliment each other extremely well. And that's a lot of the [00:36:10] work that I do is trying to find ways to compliment what somebody might be going through or introduce to in a treatment setting or in a [00:36:15] clinical setting.

[00:36:17] Garret Biss: But there's, but there's a lot more that can be done. I think, you [00:36:20] know, there's a, there's an unlimited upside that, that you can experience or achieve. So a lot of the coaching [00:36:25] that I went through, it was on these, it was on processes and on things that helped me first and, and [00:36:30] tying back to the TED Talk, I talk about these three fundamental needs for connection, for authenticity, for meaning.

[00:36:34] Garret Biss: [00:36:35] First, it helped me regain that sense of connection, which that connection doesn't start with connection [00:36:40] to a new tribe or regaining a sense of belonging. The most important connection that we can have is a connection [00:36:45] that we have with ourself. So it's the connection with the positive traits that we have.

[00:36:49] Garret Biss: It's the connection with the [00:36:50] strengths that we have. It's recognizing the wins and the successes that we've had in our life [00:36:55] so that we can begin to see ourself in a more positive image. One, once we begin to regain [00:37:00] a, a sense of self-respect or self-worth. Then we can lean into fostering [00:37:05] healthy connections with others, because if we feel terrible about ourself, if that aperture has shrunk in on all the [00:37:10] things that we hate, or all the weaknesses or all the defects that we've identified in ourself, if you go out and try to [00:37:15] foster new connections from that regard, then you're doing it in a very unhealthy way.

[00:37:18] Garret Biss: You're doing it for acceptance. [00:37:20] You're doing it because your sense of self-worth is founded on how other people perceive you. [00:37:25] So if you can imagine going out in the world, just showing up as a version of yourself, being that chameleon, trying to [00:37:30] show up in every environment or every engagement to win somebody else's acceptance or [00:37:35] approval, that's a very dynamic, very stressful and very unhealthy place to be.

[00:37:39] Garret Biss: So before we can [00:37:40] begin to foster healthy and, uh, connections and rebuild that sense of emotional [00:37:45] and, and psychological foundation for our wellbeing, we need to first connect with ourself. [00:37:50] And that's a lot of the work that he started to introduce me to. So there's some exercises I use now that are really, [00:37:55] uh, you know, fundamental to the coaching that I do.

[00:37:57] The Power of Writing 100 Personal Wins 📝🏆✨

[00:37:57] Garret Biss: One of the first exercises I'll have somebody do [00:38:00] is sit down and write a list of a hundred wins and successes that you've had in your life. And if you're in a [00:38:05] really dark place, it might be hard to come up with one or two. The biggest litmus test for me is [00:38:10] to ask somebody, okay, how, how easy would it be for you to list all your defects, all your mistakes, all the losses, [00:38:15] all the, uh, things that you're embarrassed about?

[00:38:17] Garret Biss: And, and for most people, when they're really stuck in that dark [00:38:20] place, they're like, oh man, I'm gonna need more than one sheet of paper. Like, gimme a notebook, I'm gonna fill this thing up. Well, that's a [00:38:25] litmus test to me, confirming where they, where kind of where they are in their journey and where they are in their mindset [00:38:30] and where they are in their perspective.

[00:38:31] Garret Biss: So shattering that and just kinda starting to shattering that, [00:38:35] that negative foundation and just starting to create a little momentum in the right direction. [00:38:40] Can be profoundly impacted by doing something as simple as writing a list of wins and [00:38:45] successes that you've had in your life. This forces you to begin to expand that aperture, not just looking at the [00:38:50] things that, uh, about yourself that you hate, but also recognizing and giving credit to some of the [00:38:55] many, you know, beautiful, uh, things about you and the wins and successes that you've had as well.

[00:38:59] Bruce Anthony: [00:39:00] This seems like this form of psychology was perfect for [00:39:05] you, given where you were, you talked about earlier. [00:39:10] That, that zoom in focusing on your negative stuff, and this, [00:39:15] you described it as escaping into something a little bit more healthier, I would say [00:39:20] refocusing. Refocusing that those blinders to not look at your negatives, [00:39:25] but to focus on your positives.

[00:39:26] Bruce Anthony: And I would imagine that this form of coaching [00:39:30] is tailor made for veterans who were feeling exactly like you [00:39:35] were.

[00:39:36] Garret Biss: A lot of the work I do now, specifically with veterans, but I've used this work in, in, you know, in the [00:39:40] recovery community and you know, in many other communities. And I see it, it's very similar [00:39:45] to anybody that's stuck in their life, back to that human experience. You know, anybody who feels stuck, anybody who's been through a major [00:39:50] transition, anybody who feels like, Hey, something's missing, something's not in alignment.

[00:39:54] Garret Biss: All these cylinders [00:39:55] aren't firing right. A lot of help can be had through, you know, through these kind of [00:40:00] processes. The, the mentor that I've worked with the most, he wasn't a veteran either, so, you know, he [00:40:05] works, he is, he is known as America's number one success coach. He works with a lot of people and these same [00:40:10] principles are just as efficacious for, for anybody else.

[00:40:13] Garret Biss: Uh, I like working with [00:40:15] veterans because that's the experience that I know the best. I understand some of the challenges. I understand the [00:40:20] repercussions from military service and from that transition, and I know how it can be, uh, [00:40:25] how it can get a lot of veterans stuck. So that's where I really focus my effort the most.

[00:40:29] Bruce Anthony: Some [00:40:30] people still believe in that traditional type of recovery and [00:40:35] psychology. Do you face any type of skepticism or pushback for talking about or taking [00:40:40] a different path,

[00:40:41] Garret Biss: No, I.

[00:40:41] Bruce Anthony: in your veteran spaces?

[00:40:43] Garret Biss: Yeah, certainly. So I, I am [00:40:45] not for or against any pathway to recovery, so I understand there's about 28 to 30 million adults in [00:40:50] America that struggle with some substance or behavior. I also understand that that's 28 to [00:40:55] 30 million different life paths. That's 28 to 30 million different combinations of [00:41:00] experiences, of environments, of setbacks, of traumas.

[00:41:03] Garret Biss: That led that person to a place [00:41:05] where the best that they can do to survive emotionally in the moment is a reliance on some substance or [00:41:10] behavior. So with that in mind, I also understand there's not one pathway to recovery. There's not 10 [00:41:15] pathways to recovery. You know, there's not thousands of pathways to recovery.

[00:41:17] Garret Biss: There might be as many as 28 to 30 million [00:41:20] different pathways to recovery because everybody took a different journey into that darkness. Everybody's gonna need a [00:41:25] different combination of tools and resources and. Treatments and support to get back to or [00:41:30] get to that place that they wanna be. So I'm a huge advocate for every form of recovery that's out [00:41:35] there, so long as it's providing value to that individual.

[00:41:38] Garret Biss: And that's what I always encourage. I work [00:41:40] with a lot of civilians now that are in recovery and I always encourage somebody, you know, just, just try something. You know, take, [00:41:45] take what's valuable to you, take the benefit, the gain that you can get from it. And if you feel like it's not [00:41:50] helping you as much as you would like, or maybe there's something missing or, or out of alignment with your values [00:41:55] and beliefs.

[00:41:56] Garret Biss: Then you have to do some serious introspection and ask [00:42:00] yourself, is it me that's creating this friction? Am I just not willing to commit and kind of lean into this [00:42:05] process? Or is there something about this particular framework or this particular model [00:42:10] that's not really addressing my needs? If it's not an internal friction that you're [00:42:15] creating, then by all means go find anything else that you can add to your [00:42:20] repertoire of tools and resources and support to make that difference.

[00:42:23] Garret Biss: So I work with people that go [00:42:25] through many different kinds of treatments and, and recovery modalities, and my aim is never to [00:42:30] replace what somebody else is doing that's effective. It's to help fill some gaps or help [00:42:35] accelerate their progress, help 'em, uh, be exposed or experience some things that can help accelerate that journey.[00:42:40]

[00:42:40] Bruce Anthony: I love that answer. Absolutely love it. You know, ​

[00:42:50] Bruce Anthony: [00:42:45] [00:42:50] with veterans today entering civilian life [00:42:55] and, and you've talked. A lot about it during this [00:43:00] discussion, but I still feel like there's a lot that [00:43:05] civilians have misunderstood about the struggles for [00:43:10] veterans. What do you think tends to be oversimplified and what do you [00:43:15] think tends to be ignored?

[00:43:17] Garret Biss: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think a lot of individuals they [00:43:20] have, you know, there's some stereotypes and there's some biases and there's people, you know, anytime we [00:43:25] don't know something fully, we make some assumptions to kind of fill in the gaps of what we don't know. And for a lot of [00:43:30] individuals that

[00:43:30] What Civilians Often Misunderstand About Veterans 🎭🧠🚫

[00:43:30] Garret Biss: aren't closely connected with military families or service members.

[00:43:34] Garret Biss: They might fill in [00:43:35] some of those gaps with just what they see in the movies or hear on tv or hear their friends talking about. So they, [00:43:40] many times what I've seen is they'll come to some unfair or unrealistic [00:43:45] assumptions about what that veteran journey or what that veteran experience might look like.

[00:43:49] Garret Biss: [00:43:50] You know, for, for a lot of individuals, and this is a lot of mental health professionals also, I do a lot of speaking, a lot of [00:43:55] training with mental health. Professionals on that cultural awareness piece to help 'em understand the veteran experience, [00:44:00] and I think that there's this unfair assumption that if veteran is experiencing PTSD or [00:44:05] substance use disorder, then it must connect back to some trauma that they experienced on the [00:44:10] battlefield or maybe some military sexual trauma while they were in the service.

[00:44:13] Garret Biss: And while sadly that's true for a [00:44:15] lot of veterans, it's not true for most yet, most veterans will experience some of these symptoms or some of [00:44:20] these effects of post-trauma if for nothing, if, if for no other reason [00:44:25] than because of that transition from military service.

[00:44:28] Bruce Anthony: [00:44:30] So how, how do, how do [00:44:35] we make people more aware of their [00:44:40] biases? When they don't know, uh, people are always experts on things that they don't know. It seems [00:44:45] like that's becoming more and more of a epidemic nowadays. How do we, how do [00:44:50] we kinda wake those people up to say, Hey, it's not this,

[00:44:53] Garret Biss: Right.

[00:44:53] Bruce Anthony: it's not that [00:44:55] simple.

[00:44:55] Garret Biss: Right. Well, they're gonna fi, you know, people are gonna fill in the blanks, whatever they have access to, or whatever they've [00:45:00] heard. So I think having more conversations like this and shining a different light on first, [00:45:05] helping veterans better understand it, that, you know, the two reasons I did that TEDx talk, which is called the unspoken trauma, that [00:45:10] all veterans face.

[00:45:10] Garret Biss: As one.

[00:45:11] How Honest Conversations Break Bias 🗣️🔍🤝

[00:45:11] Garret Biss: I wanted veterans to understand when they find themselves in that darkness. [00:45:15] I wanted to give 'em some perspective on what shifts have happened in their life to help them understand and [00:45:20] contextualize the challenges that they're going through. One of the hardest things that we can face as a human is to be [00:45:25] in pain or experience suffering and have no idea where it came from.

[00:45:28] Garret Biss: You know, if you just wake up one day and [00:45:30] everything hurts, but you have no idea where it came from, it can be very hard to have hope or an understanding that things can get [00:45:35] better, uh, and it can make you feel stuck and then maybe make it feel like it's all your fault or you're just so [00:45:40] defective or damaged that there's no hope out there.

[00:45:42] Garret Biss: So for, you know, that's the biggest message I want for veterans. [00:45:45] Whether it helps 'em the day they get outta uniform or whether they remember that, that quick message years later, [00:45:50] I wanted them to have some context for what they might be going through internally so they can also have [00:45:55] some context and some hope.

[00:45:56] Garret Biss: That things can get better. And I really want to ve the, you know, the [00:46:00] civilian population or non-veterans to understand, you know, oh, this is, this is also what's [00:46:05] happening through that veteran transition experience. These are some of the internal battles that they might be facing and some of the [00:46:10] struggles.

[00:46:10] Garret Biss: So I think the way that we do that is by having more conversations about it so that people have. [00:46:15] Different data and different evidence to fill in some of those assumptions. So, you know, offering those [00:46:20] unsolicited perspectives so that people can add some things to their repertoire and, and, and paint that [00:46:25] clearer picture is, is a great way to do it.

[00:46:27] Bruce Anthony: You, [00:46:30] I guess you're never outta recovery, right? Like you, you're always kind of [00:46:35] in recovery. But when you got to the point where [00:46:40] your mentor and your recovery had helped you so much, you [00:46:45] decided to start working with other people. It's what you're doing now. So tell me about what you [00:46:50] created. You created a whole system and a whole organization to help people.

[00:46:54] Why Veteran Programs Must Be Veteran-Centered 🧩🪖🛠️

[00:46:54] Garret Biss: [00:46:55] Yeah, so what I, what I, the work I'm doing now is trying to recreate and trying to offer [00:47:00] some of the things that I've found most helpful in my life and in my recovery journey, and doing it through a [00:47:05] lens of my experience as a veteran. So I see, you know, there's a couple challenges that veterans face, [00:47:10] especially when they get into treatment, or for those veterans that get involved in the justice system and have some, [00:47:15] some other consequences that they're facing.

[00:47:17] Garret Biss: One of the challenges I see is that they're often pushed [00:47:20] into or introduced to programs that weren't really designed with the val, with [00:47:25] the, uh, the, the veteran experience in mind. So I understand that a lot of individuals that have struggled [00:47:30] with a substance or behavior or severe mental health challenge, sadly, and unfortunately [00:47:35] many times, that is because.

[00:47:37] Garret Biss: Of the life experience that they've had and not [00:47:40] being afforded the opportunity and the experiences and the support and the nurturing in order to [00:47:45] develop the mental and emotional, uh, wellness that they need to deal with life on [00:47:50] life's terms. So, you know, this creates a, a weak foundation where sometimes [00:47:55] substances and behaviors can come in and fill a void or lead to some, some problematic, uh, challenges.[00:48:00]

[00:48:00] Garret Biss: I understand the veteran experience as somebody who. Has [00:48:05] had an experience of tremendous self-worth of value, of meaning, of connection, [00:48:10] of, of that strong bond and sense of belonging, and then went through a shift or a [00:48:15] transition where they lost it all. So I feel that most individuals, you know, these two different populations, [00:48:20] whether it's a civilian that's struggling with with mental health or substances or a veterans, [00:48:25] their journey into that place often looks a lot different.

[00:48:28] Garret Biss: So their journey out of that place might [00:48:30] also look a lot different. So we see some, some real challenges with getting [00:48:35] veterans into treatment or into programs or into support. And then we see [00:48:40] major challenges in helping keeping them engaged. I've talked to a lot of veterans as coaching clients and they say, you know, the stuff [00:48:45] that I'm getting in these treatments or in these groups, it just doesn't resonate with me.

[00:48:48] Garret Biss: It doesn't match to what [00:48:50] my experience has been. So it doesn't really feel like it's that helpful. So a lot of what I'm doing now is [00:48:55] trying to fill those gaps and align the services and and things that are out there so they can [00:49:00] better connect. With the veteran experience, I was recently down in Georgia working with some [00:49:05] veteran inmates, and one of the things the veteran said after going through, you know, some of the programming or classes I [00:49:10] provided was, now I better understand how I got here and I'm ready to [00:49:15] start sharing more.

[00:49:15] Garret Biss: I'm ready to engage more with the, you know, with my family and with my clinicians and [00:49:20] treatment providers because I have a clear understanding of where I am. So helping just provide that [00:49:25] context, doing it in a nonclinical way, doing it through recovery coaching, doing it through classes and through training [00:49:30] is a very powerful way.

[00:49:31] Garret Biss: To get better outcomes from those veterans that are in, you know, [00:49:35] certain kinds of programs so they can get to a better place. And I think a lot of it comes back to that analogy about the hot air [00:49:40] balloon, about the positive psychology. Like if you want somebody to get better, you can't just remove everything [00:49:45] from them.

[00:49:45] Garret Biss: That is bad, of course, that you know, of course that can help the progress or help the journey going [00:49:50] forward. But if there's not enough emphasis on leveraging and strengthening everything that's good [00:49:55] in an individual, then there's only so far that they can go in their recovery journey.

[00:49:59] Bruce Anthony: [00:50:00] This, once again, I don't mean things, but this might be. [00:50:05] A, a simplified way of saying that what you're doing is creating [00:50:10] a new mission, but this is a healthier mission. This is something that veterans are trained [00:50:15] to do. Go on mission, accomplish that mission. It [00:50:20] seems like when you're doing these clinicians that what you're [00:50:25] doing is giving these veterans a new mission.

[00:50:29] Bruce Anthony: That, that [00:50:30] focus, that tunnel focus on this is, this is the mission, this is how we get [00:50:35] better. And in that kind of, oh, okay, this is recognizable to me. [00:50:40] I can do this. Is that, is that kind of.

[00:50:43] Garret Biss: I think there's a lot in there and, [00:50:45] and, and so many different things to unpack. So yes, giving veterans a new mission, but [00:50:50] first and foremost through that reconnection piece, helping them realize [00:50:55] and appreciate that they deserve to feel better. If we've been in a dark place long enough and we've [00:51:00] been messing up our own lives through substances, through behaviors, through some challenges, you know, [00:51:05] wreaking havoc in our, in our relationships, you very quickly get to a place where you feel like you don't deserve [00:51:10] to have anything feel better.

[00:51:11] Garret Biss: And this is a major thing that trips a lot of people up in their recovery journey. When they start to make [00:51:15] that progress and their life starts to settle down and it's not as chaotic as it used to be. If [00:51:20] that self-doubt and that lack of self-worth starts to creep in, then you, you know, a lot of people think.[00:51:25]

[00:51:25] Garret Biss: Maybe I don't deserve this. Maybe I need to go back to my old ways because of the pain and the suffering that I [00:51:30] feel there. Like that was a sentence that I deserve, and that's what I, that's what I deserve to experience in my [00:51:35] life. So by simply helping veterans reconnect with themselves, you know, provide 'em the context, what is it that led me [00:51:40] into the starkness and then reminding them, let's turn on that light.

[00:51:43] Garret Biss: Let's turn on that flashlight and remind you [00:51:45] of all the beautiful things and the strong things and the, and the things that are worthwhile in you so that you [00:51:50] can invest more in your mission to get to a better place. So there's a lot [00:51:55] there. And then back to the mission aspect of it. You know, this really ties back to that fundamental need that we have for [00:52:00] meaning.

[00:52:00] Why Meaning Is Essential for Survival and Healing 🔥🎯🧠

[00:52:00] Garret Biss: So I used to understand meaning as just something that was a nice to have. It provided some context. It [00:52:05] was pretty cool if you had, it didn't necessarily, you know, cost anything if you didn't have a strong sense of meaning. [00:52:10] But what I've come to understand is that meaning is actually. Very profound need [00:52:15] that we have for our emotional and mental wellbeing.

[00:52:17] Garret Biss: It's meaning that provides our capacity [00:52:20] to endorse suffering. It's meaning that allows us to go through difficult times and really lean into [00:52:25] challenges and, and do things that can help promote that growth or help us get to a better place. So without that [00:52:30] sense of meaning or without that mission of getting better, you might have a mission.

[00:52:33] Garret Biss: If you don't feel that you deserve the, [00:52:35] the goal or the end state of that mission, then you're not gonna lean in. You're not gonna invest in it. With, with everything that you [00:52:40] can. But having that mission also provides context for why am I [00:52:45] doing these difficult things? Like what is the reason for doing this?

[00:52:48] Garret Biss: And, and back to the, you know, the human [00:52:50] experience. We all go through this. If you've ever set a goal and didn't have a reason for that goal, it's next [00:52:55] to impossible to accomplish it. If you just say, Hey, I'm gonna save $10,000, I'm going to lose [00:53:00] 10 pounds. If you don't have a meaning associated with that, then most likely you're not going to [00:53:05] achieve that goal.

[00:53:05] Garret Biss: But the minute you say, I need to save $10,000 for my, my, uh, you know, [00:53:10] for my wedding, or I need to save $5,000 to take my family on a vacation, I need to lose 10 [00:53:15] pounds. 'cause we're gonna be a, it's gonna be a beach vacation. I need to look good when I get there. Once you have that sense of [00:53:20] meaning wrapped around this goal that you've set, now you have the capacity to do the difficult things day in and [00:53:25] day out so that you can reach that, that goal.

[00:53:27] Garret Biss: The also the sense of meaning is something that [00:53:30] helps transmute the pain and the adversity and the suffering from the past and get something [00:53:35] good out of it. You know, this, uh, you know, the, the struggles that we've been through, they cause [00:53:40] pain and they cause discomfort in the moment. But within the every struggle that we've been [00:53:45] through, there's also seeds for something beautiful and something great to come.

[00:53:48] Garret Biss: Out on the other side, [00:53:50] you know, somebody, they, I, I used to get asked a lot, why do you work with people that are in recovery? You know, if you're a a, [00:53:55] a wellness coach or a mindset coach, there's a lot of people that you can work with. Why would you choose to [00:54:00] niche down and work with just with people in recovery?

[00:54:02] Garret Biss: And my response is always, you know, I think life, [00:54:05] the human experience, the human journey can be a lot like a pendulum. And the further that pendulum swings [00:54:10] into one direction of pain and despair and adversity and suffering and trauma, the [00:54:15] greater the potential it has to swing in the other direction of compassion and determination and [00:54:20] self-worth.

[00:54:20] Garret Biss: So there's something beautiful that can happen when you work with people that are coming from the darkest places. [00:54:25] The, the, the heights that they can get to are much greater, much different than than. [00:54:30] Somebody else that hasn't gone through some of that struggle, but that process of swinging that pendulum is aligning [00:54:35] what you're doing, what goals you're setting, what mission you have, and helping you [00:54:40] map this adversity or this pain or this trauma from the past to what I'm now going [00:54:45] to accomplish.

[00:54:45] Garret Biss: And there's, you know, there can be many different ways that we can do that. We can do it specifically, so there could be a [00:54:50] specific trauma that we live through and now we want to dedicate ourselves to helping other people that have [00:54:55] lived through that. Whether you grew up in poverty or had, you know, some, some trauma in your childhood.

[00:54:59] Garret Biss: There's a lot of people [00:55:00] that start organizations or start causes because they want to take their pain and suffering and invest it in [00:55:05] something that can be a positive benefit. Or sometimes people, uh, map that pain or that [00:55:10] adversity a little bit more generally, and they just, they say, you know, I, I, I've been through some major struggles.

[00:55:14] Garret Biss: I've [00:55:15] been through some severe hardships. I want to invest the strength and the wisdom and the [00:55:20] determination that I gained going through and living through that experience. But I wanna invest it in [00:55:25] something else. I wanna invest it in a profession, in a career. Maybe I wanna start a business. Maybe I want to use [00:55:30] that energy.

[00:55:30] Garret Biss: I wanna transmute that negative energy to, uh, to allow me to create something good. [00:55:35] But without that mission, without that sense of meaning that you cander from that mission, then [00:55:40] that's a tremendous uh. Path of healing that I think is really lost, and that's where I think real [00:55:45] healing occurs. It's not in lessening or, or, uh, [00:55:50] or unburdening yourself of pain from the past.

[00:55:53] Garret Biss: It's in investing [00:55:55] that pain into something that provides a positive gain in the future.

[00:55:58] Bruce Anthony: Just [00:56:00] like you doing what you do now gives you meaning,

[00:56:04] Garret Biss: Right.

[00:56:04] Bruce Anthony: [00:56:05] and so you've reinvested the pain into the future. I, I love that.

[00:56:09] Garret Biss: Yeah, I'm gonna make it [00:56:10] worth something. Like there's gonna be some reason I went through that. I'm not just gonna let it be some trivial thing that happened [00:56:15] that now I ignore, I'm going to, you know, get all the juice I can from that, from that [00:56:20] painting, that suffering.

[00:56:21] Bruce Anthony: When someone listens to your talk or hears your [00:56:25] story listening, watching on this show, what do you hope unlocks [00:56:30] for them, uh, especially for veterans who might still be sitting [00:56:35] quietly in that darkness?

[00:56:36] A Message to Veterans Sitting in the Dark 🕯️❤️🪖

[00:56:36] Garret Biss: So just know that, that as a veteran, [00:56:40] regardless of what you experience in the military, that transition from military service can and is often [00:56:45] traumatic in and of itself. Through that major transition, you lose the way that you came to meet a [00:56:50] lot of your basic fundamental needs, and there's gonna be some really severe challenges that come out as a result of [00:56:55] that.

[00:56:55] Garret Biss: If you're in the, if you're really in the darkness, and if you're really struggling, that I want you to know first and [00:57:00] foremost, that you are deserving of love, of happiness, of joy, of [00:57:05] all the good things in your life that you want, you're deserving of it, and you can achieve it, and you can accomplish [00:57:10] those things as well.

[00:57:11] Garret Biss: If you're willing to accept some guidance, some coaching, open your [00:57:15] mind, you know, that doesn't have to be working with somebody. It could be leaning into some books or some podcasts, trying to gain [00:57:20] some new ideas. Anything that can help you broaden that perspective and help you remember some of the good things [00:57:25] that are within you, and start to fill some of those assumptions or fill some of those things that [00:57:30] were, that were might be keeping you stuck and in your place.

[00:57:32] Garret Biss: I do remember one time when I was on deployment where I was. [00:57:35] I, there was a unique kind of inflection point in my career where I'd just gotten a major upgrade. [00:57:40] Uh, so all of the extra time that I had where I was studying and pouring over, uh, you know, [00:57:45] preparing for this major, uh, test, for this upgrade, I really found myself with a lot of idle [00:57:50] time.

[00:57:50] Garret Biss: And in that idle time, I realized. I'm pouring every bit of energy [00:57:55] into trying to do and achieve these things that I thought I was supposed to want. You know, [00:58:00] I've got the, I've got the house, I've got the two cars. We're taking nice vacations. I got the wife and kid at [00:58:05] home. I've got this great career. I'm traveling around.

[00:58:08] Garret Biss: Why does it feel like my [00:58:10] return on investment is so small? If I'm giving a hundred percent of what I've got, then why do I feel like I'm getting, you [00:58:15] know, 10% joy and 10% fulfillment from this, uh, from all this effort? And I [00:58:20] realized one of two things was happening either. Life is supposed to be this cruel experience that we [00:58:25] suffer through and then ultimately die at the end.

[00:58:27] Garret Biss: Or maybe there were some like [00:58:30] fundamental values and beliefs and perspectives that I had that were just not correct. [00:58:35] So hoping it was that and hoping it wasn't, uh, you know, the first option, [00:58:40] it opened my mind and my curiosity to go and. Try to learn some new things, see some [00:58:45] different perspectives. And I spent the next couple months, you know, listening to, uh, you know, sermons or [00:58:50] worship services from many different denominations.

[00:58:53] Garret Biss: I, I started watching Ted [00:58:55] Talks and I think they were doing a thing at the time called Google Talks, started reading different books [00:59:00] and looking for some kind of clarity or some kind of answers. [00:59:05] You know, that process took a period of time, but very quickly I began to see, oh, [00:59:10] there's something here that's a little different than the way that I see or experience things.

[00:59:13] Garret Biss’ Book, Coaching Work, and Where to Learn More 📚🔗✅

[00:59:13] Garret Biss: There's a perspective here that's a [00:59:15] little bit different, and for anybody that's interested and wants to look to know a little bit more about this, I wrote a book a while ago [00:59:20] called The Spheres Approach to Happiness and Fulfillment. And this really, uh, you know, shares [00:59:25] some of those early ahas or awarenesses or change the perspective that I began to [00:59:30] experience, which really altered the way that I, that I saw.

[00:59:33] Garret Biss: The world saw my, understood [00:59:35] myself, understood my, my role in the, in this life experience.

[00:59:39] Bruce Anthony: Wow, [00:59:40] Garrett, I, this has truly been, you've got an incredible story [00:59:45] and what you're doing now is so very, very important. I said at the top, [00:59:50] the care that we need to give to veterans is not being given, [00:59:55] and I'm glad to hear people like you. [01:00:00] Organizations like you are, are refocusing to say, look, we need to care for [01:00:05] our tribe.

[01:00:06] Bruce Anthony: 'cause even though I'm not a part of that tribe, I feel [01:00:10] that we all need to care for that tribe. So I want to thank you so much for coming on the show [01:00:15] today, sharing your story, share, giving us. Wisdom of what's going [01:00:20] on, the information that we need, what's going on, and the ability to start having [01:00:25] conversations with civilians to help veterans as well.

[01:00:28] Bruce Anthony: So I just, I just [01:00:30] appreciate you coming on the show and having this conversation with me.

[01:00:33] Garret Biss: I really appreciate the opportunity. I [01:00:35] thank you so much for not just this conversation, but many of the conversations that you're having, just trying to bring some new [01:00:40] perspective and, and some new insight to help individuals in their own journey.

[01:00:44] Bruce Anthony: I appreciate [01:00:45] that. Thank you so much. Before we close this out, I wanna leave you with this. [01:00:50] What really stayed with me in this conversation and how easy it is for someone to look fine on [01:00:55] the outside while carrying a lot internally. How much of what we [01:01:00] talk about today happens quietly without announcements, [01:01:05] without obvious signals, without people knowing what to ask or [01:01:10] how to help.

[01:01:12] Bruce Anthony: One of the most powerful takeaways here is that healing [01:01:15] isn't just about removing what's hurt. It's about remembering what's still there. [01:01:20] Strength, capability, value the parts of [01:01:25] yourself that doesn't disappear just because your life changed. Gar works lives in [01:01:30] the space, helping people reconnect with who they are and figure out what comes [01:01:35] next.

[01:01:36] Bruce Anthony: On their own terms. If today's conversation gave you [01:01:40] something to think about or made you see the topic differently, I encourage you to take a [01:01:45] little time to explore his work further. His book and his organization are both linked [01:01:50] in the description of this episode for both the audio and video versions of this show.[01:01:55]

[01:01:55] Bruce Anthony: Whether that's for you or for someone that you care about, those resources [01:02:00] are there for you, Garrett. I can't stress enough how much I really [01:02:05] appreciate you sharing your time, your perspective, and your honesty with us today, [01:02:10] and how important this conversation was not just for veterans, [01:02:15] but for civilians as well. I care deeply about this [01:02:20] issue. I want more [01:02:25] of the public to talk about issues that are [01:02:30] important like this than the trivial stuff that we fight and bicker [01:02:35] about. There are people that are out there fighting for our [01:02:40] freedoms that are dying when they come home, [01:02:45] not dying. When they're fighting for our freedoms, they're dying when they come [01:02:50] home.

[01:02:51] Bruce Anthony: We all have a hand on helping them [01:02:55] transition better and live a happy, healthy [01:03:00] life when they enter the civilian life. [01:03:05] That's the whole purpose of this entire conversation. [01:03:10] We need to wake up.

[01:03:14] Bruce Anthony: Ladies [01:03:15] and gentlemen, I want to thank you for listening. I want to thank you for watching. And [01:03:20] until next time, as always, I'll [01:03:25] holler.

[01:03:25] Bruce Anthony: Woo. That was a hell of a show. Thank you for rocking with us here on [01:03:30] Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Now, before you go, don't forget to follow, [01:03:35] subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcast. Wherever you're listening or watching [01:03:40] it to it, pass it along to your friends. If you enjoy it, that means the people that you rock, we'll enjoy it [01:03:45] also.

[01:03:45] Bruce Anthony: So share the wealth, share the knowledge, share the noise. For [01:03:50] all those people that say, well, I don't have a YouTube. If you have a Gmail account, you have a YouTube. [01:03:55] Subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can actually watch our video podcast and YouTube exclusive content. [01:04:00] But the real party is on our Patreon page after Hours Uncensored and talking [01:04:05] straight ish after Hours.

[01:04:06] Bruce Anthony: Uncensored is another show with my sister, and once again, the key [01:04:10] word there is uncensored. Those are exclusively on our Patreon page. Jump onto our [01:04:15] website@unsolicitedperspective.com for all things us. That's where you can get all of our [01:04:20] audio video, our blogs. And even buy our merch. And if you really feel generous and [01:04:25] want to help us out, you can donate on our donations page.

[01:04:28] Bruce Anthony: Donations go [01:04:30] strictly to improving our software and hardware so we can keep giving you guys good content that [01:04:35] you can clearly listen to and that you can clearly see. So any donation would be [01:04:40] appreciative. Most importantly, I wanna say thank you, thank you, thank you [01:04:45] for listening and watching and supporting us, and I'll catch you next time.

[01:04:49] Bruce Anthony: Audi [01:04:50] 5,000 [01:04:55] Peace.