Beauty & Resilience: A Conversation with Jo Weatherford

00:06.30
Bruce Anthony
So like I said at the top I'm here with Jo Weatherford she's a ted x speaker therapist for people recovering from addiction model former model but still model once you're in the business here are kind of always in the business. Um. Here with me. Thank you for Jo Weatherfordining me today. It's no, it's my pleasure and I like to start every interview with let's get into a little bit about your background a little bit about your upbringing and then.

00:23.58
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

00:38.22
Bruce Anthony
Did that have anything to do with you getting into modeling.

00:43.31
Jo Weatherford 
That's a great question. Um, well so I grew up with parents that were both pilots and both alcoholics and very high functioning. So that's a big part of my story. Um.

00:52.30
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay.

00:59.34
Jo Weatherford 
And I do think that that influenced my modeling career because there was a deep desire for me when I was younger, especially for outside validation and attention and so modeling was in some ways a great way to get that and in other ways the industry is is.

01:01.83
Bruce Anthony
A.

01:17.57
Bruce Anthony
A.

01:18.28
Jo Weatherford 
Very brutal I mean it is ruthless. Um, so yeah, it it definitely impacted it I started modeling though when I was 12 and in hindsight this is really creepy but my first Jo Weatherfordb ever was modeling wedding dresses and I was 12 I was.

01:32.40
Bruce Anthony
Okay, what that I'm so that there's a lot of questions I have about that That's weird was it because you were tall and you've looked older.

01:38.40
Jo Weatherford 
So many? yes.

01:47.29
Jo Weatherford 
I did I mean like for those of you who can actually see me and not just listening to this I have always had a face that look thirty you know like whether I'm 42 I look 30 or if I was 12 I look 30 So um, at the time.

02:01.51
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

02:02.80
Jo Weatherford 
Didn't seem that strange that I was modeling wedding dresses I kind of looked like somebody that you would see wearing a wedding dress but that was my first that was my first gig and um, yeah, so I started off there and then I went into broadcast Jo Weatherfordurnalism and.

02:08.90
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

02:21.97
Jo Weatherford 
My passion really was to report on the news and world events and I wanted to go out and and change the world as a Jo Weatherfordurnalist when I got hunted by Playboy and at that time the money was so good. There really was kind of a golden era.

02:30.95
Bruce Anthony
Um e.

02:40.16
Jo Weatherford 
Playboy and I sort of hit the tail end of it. Um, it's really sad to hear all the accusations and everything that's come out since but my experience with them was I was always treated with a lot of respect I've been way worse sexually harassed. Um, in quote unquote like real Jo Weatherfordbs I was.

02:41.37
Bruce Anthony
A.

02:57.42
Bruce Anthony
You.

02:59.85
Jo Weatherford 
Always treated well and so being an alcoholic and a drug addict and only needed and work a few hours a week in a industry where not only was it. Ah okay if I showed up high but it was kind of encouraged. It was.

03:12.67
Bruce Anthony
Here.

03:16.24
Jo Weatherford 
The perfect situation for me at that time with the tools that I had at that time of my life like I would never do that now as I am now and it's a beautiful reminder I think we're all doing the best we can with what we have in the moment and so that industry was a big part of my life until I.

03:22.45
Bruce Anthony
Right.

03:28.65
Bruce Anthony
If a.

03:35.99
Jo Weatherford 
But it's Rehab and when I got sober I got out.

03:39.85
Bruce Anthony
Okay, we're gonna get into that. But there's some things I need to touch on before we get into that so your parents were both pilots and you said they were alcohol. They were functioning alcoholics. Um I'm not going to point out anybody in my personal family.

03:43.40
Jo Weatherford 
Um, this.

03:54.85
Bruce Anthony
But I know what a functioning alcoholic looks like when you were younger. Did you know that your parents were functioning alcoholics or did you just think mom and dad drink a lot.

04:06.63
Jo Weatherford 
I I don't remember thinking about their drinking a lot until I was 7 and then I started really paying attention to why are they always drinking that and why did they act funny and then it was around that time I remember. Picking up a glass of what I thought was orange juice and taking a swig of it and you know it's eight o'clock in the morning and it was a screwdriver. It was like straight vodka. So then I mean that was the moment my innocence around it was just shattered I was like oh shit this is a problem this is real and.

04:27.51
Bruce Anthony
A.

04:44.55
Jo Weatherford 
Even as a child I knew I was kind of on my own if that makes sense like it was a real reckoning moment for me. Um, but yeah, both my parents were wildly successful in that industry aviation. It's It's so common a lot of them are former military.

04:47.56
Bruce Anthony
Okay, here.

04:58.40
Bruce Anthony
In here.

05:04.42
Jo Weatherford 
They have multiple days off in a row and then they go work. You know So there's a lot of things I think they contribute to it. Plus they're just very high achievers dopamine you know Junki Adrenaline junkies. Um, but yeah, they they always held it together and you know I had a.

05:07.14
Bruce Anthony
Here.

05:13.95
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

05:23.56
Jo Weatherford 
A beautiful home to live in and my parents were at all my softball games and I mean so in a lot of ways they really showed up for me in ways that I appreciate and there was this darkness that that stole a lot of. Moments and connection and um, it was very very difficult and confusing and then of course most children do one of 2 things. They either never touch it or they become what they hate and.

05:53.42
Bruce Anthony
A.

05:55.94
Jo Weatherford 
Age twelve I started drinking at a very addicted level and I was a full-blown out alcohollic by the time I was like 13 or 14

06:05.14
Bruce Anthony
So do you think that that happened because at the same time you're modeling. So you're entering in that industry. But so obviously there's some there's some connection between the 2 but but you have alcohol readily available in your home. Um, which was a. Bigger if one was bigger than the other contributor to your your addiction to alcohol was it the home the arrelia availability or was it entering in modeling.

06:27.76
Jo Weatherford 
Well I think.

06:35.19
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah I don't want to blame the modeling I was I was already one of those kids that felt I didn't belong. Um I was raised as an only child I was really lonely I was very isolated in a lot of ways from a lot of my friends.

06:40.53
Bruce Anthony
E.

06:52.94
Jo Weatherford 
Um, it it came down to. We don't trust your mom because she's drinking So we're not going to let our kids go play over there so I was dealing with a lot of that and then two I Also believe some of it was my genetics I mean I just I was cursed.

06:57.20
Bruce Anthony
You are.

07:11.15
Jo Weatherford 
Truly um, as far as the addictive gene but then also seeing my parents cope that way you know like that was some of it was that social learning and then the availability of it. But then so just push all of that nonsense out of the way and it comes down to me.

07:11.72
Bruce Anthony
Um, a.

07:28.40
Bruce Anthony
A.

07:29.59
Jo Weatherford 
Because I went through a moment of heartache I went upstairs I made the worst Jungle Juice you could ever make just pouring gin vodka everything into this water bottle and I just started chugging it and I was like I'm home.

07:41.11
Bruce Anthony
A he.

07:46.38
Jo Weatherford 
And so I can't even blame my circumstances. My genetics, my upbringing anything. The bottom line is when I had that first real drink it. It gave me the relief that I had been so desperately trying to find through a relationship or modeling or whatever right.

08:04.11
Bruce Anthony
He.

08:06.13
Jo Weatherford 
It was that warm hug It was that embrace that I needed so much it filled that God Shape hole for me and so that's what happened.

08:16.30
Bruce Anthony
And so you mentioned that certain friends parents wouldn't want them to come a stage or house because they didn't trust your mom So It's common knowledge in your community. That your parents are functioning. Alcoholics.

08:35.61
Jo Weatherford 
Well and my dad really you know he would just tie one on and when he really went. He went hard. Um at no more than anybody else. So you know because I go Okay, most people I know like I live in cabo.

08:43.37
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay.

08:51.94
Jo Weatherford 
Functioning Alcoholics I mean if we're going to get real with it. Um, so it wasn't like his drinking was even out of the norm. My mother's was concerning and people started to notice that it was.

08:53.68
Bruce Anthony
2 in here. Right.

09:06.30
Jo Weatherford 
Not even the amount like my mom would never get sloppy. My mom too I want to say this is a badass. My mom was the first hispanic commercial female airline pilot. My mom is wicked smart. She taught aerospace dynamics at every brittle I don't even know what that is but it's.

09:13.39
Bruce Anthony
Um, if.

09:16.19
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

09:25.20
Bruce Anthony
A.

09:25.26
Jo Weatherford 
Really smart. My mom is a fierce beautiful woman and she got hooked by this and yeah I think people started noticing it and so they didn't want their kids hanging out. You know at my house and then when I turned 12 and I started drinking then I was the reason then it was like oh well, she's a bad kid and don't associate with her and so I really went where I was accepted which was with kids that had.

09:48.71
Bruce Anthony
Is.

10:01.68
Bruce Anthony
Everyone here.

10:01.75
Jo Weatherford 
No parental guidance. They were all dealing doing drugs. I mean it wasn't even because I wanted to it was just like that was the only place I found real acceptance and there was kind of a freedom I I had always been. Really great athlete and you know one of the popular people and there's not a pressure with all that Nonsenseset. So all of a sudden I was like I'm just going to be a failure and embrace it and and there was just like oh I was like an exhale you know the bar was then solo and i.

10:21.82
Bruce Anthony
A.

10:33.95
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah.

10:37.20
Jo Weatherford 
I needed that at the time honestly I was tired of performing at such a high level.

10:41.29
Bruce Anthony
But you say that but you're not a failure right? because you entered in modeling at 12 you go on to broadcast Jo Weatherfordurnalism and I want to talk a little bit about that you you so you want to be a Jo Weatherfordurnalist and that somebody who originally entered college. And this first maJo Weatherfordr was Jo Weatherfordurnalism I filled kindred spirit that connects us because it really is about getting to truth and stories so tell me what what was that like the start of it before you got to Playboy and then I want to talk about.

11:01.57
Jo Weatherford 
Um, yeah, yeah.

11:17.71
Bruce Anthony
How Playboy discovered you.

11:19.45
Jo Weatherford 
Okay, um, yeah, so when I was a junior in college and I was making my little reels and doing all my fun videos for my Jo Weatherfordurnalism classes. I was in a fashion show and there was a man that owned a Tv network that saw me and got to know me and decided to hire me so during college I actually co-hosted a show on our local Nbc that aired.

11:39.78
Bruce Anthony
You.

11:49.48
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

11:52.60
Jo Weatherford 
Primetime Sunday morning 9 am and it was called the home show and it was really cool because we would go in and remodel these magnificent homes in tahoe so you know $30000000 houses on the lake and show the remodel but my segment that I did was all about nightlife.

11:55.23
Bruce Anthony
Me.

12:03.12
Bruce Anthony
Um, let's go and.

12:12.20
Jo Weatherford 
Bos shopping so I got to go and just do all of those things highlight all the fun girly stuff around tahoe and Reno and I did a half hour segment on it. So it was really the dream. Um, it wasn't serious Jo Weatherfordurnalism by any means.

12:20.75
Bruce Anthony
E.

12:30.68
Jo Weatherford 
But it was so much fun and it gave me a lot of really good exposure and it was ah just an incredible opportunity.

12:32.95
Bruce Anthony
So and you're doing all this while you're drinking has drugs entered the equation yet or is it just solely drinking because this is an accomplishment. This is you being a functioning alcoholic just as your parents were.

12:39.46
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah.

12:52.60
Bruce Anthony
But being accomplished while doing that.

12:54.14
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah I was drinking heavily I wasn't drinking all day every day that came later and but at at the time Yes I was drinking heavily I would have those nights out where you're completely blacked out you wake up in the morning and you don't know.

12:59.77
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

13:12.46
Jo Weatherford 
Day of the week. It is you have no clue what's happening the shakes I mean it was It was bad but I could show up sober and shoot still so I was working sober at that time. Um and then parting my ass off at night and and I was.

13:21.98
Bruce Anthony
He.

13:30.66
Jo Weatherford 
1920 I just bounce right back. It's just resilient. Um, but yeah it was it was getting dark and I was starting to create a lot of shame. Um, just it's that whole thing like why do you drink.

13:32.12
Bruce Anthony
Right.

13:40.77
Bruce Anthony
He.

13:46.54
Jo Weatherford 
Because I'm sad why are you sad because of what I did when I was drinking and I was really getting myself into a lot of sticky situations acting very out of alignment with some of my core values I had a boyfriend at the time who was a lovely human and I would cheat on him and just do like.

13:48.69
Bruce Anthony
A.

14:02.31
Bruce Anthony
A.

14:05.55
Jo Weatherford 
Awful shit you know, really and so here I am in some ways shining and then in others I was just disgusted with myself but I didn't know how to stop drinking I also was never in denial I knew I had a problem I knew it was out of control.

14:14.10
Bruce Anthony
Anything.

14:23.43
Jo Weatherford 
I knew every time I drank it was gonna be 15 to 20 drinks like there was no kidding myself. But I also didn't know what to do about it and where I did kind of lie to myself I think was I really believed I would just grow out of it like there's.

14:26.86
Bruce Anthony
And right.

14:38.93
Bruce Anthony
Who.

14:41.34
Jo Weatherford 
Idea that I okay I'm 19 I'm 20 all my friends do this again normalizing it right? and that one day I'm just gonna grow up and be an adult and become a mom and calm down and what I realize now especially at 42 is we don't grow out of shit you either work through your stuff.

14:45.29
Bruce Anthony
Ahead.

14:59.14
Jo Weatherford 
You feel it you heal it and you change or you don't you double down you get worse. You don't just grow out of most things like we have to actively participate in our healing but at the time all I knew was I was having fun and I was ashamed and I didn't know how to stop and.

14:59.58
Bruce Anthony
Um, earth.

15:04.73
Bruce Anthony
Right.

15:17.53
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

15:17.92
Jo Weatherford 
I was just in it. So um, but that was that was a great experience for me hosting that show and I had a bright future is is when I think back to that time. Yes, there was alcoholism drugs weren't that big I mean I think I did blow like. I would go in these periods where I do cocaine for like three weeks a lot and then get so paranoid and like frazzled I'd stop so drugs weren't a big issue back then it was mainly the alcohol.

15:44.53
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay, and so you're broadcast you're doing your show and then somehow Playboy comes into the picture.

15:55.37
Jo Weatherford 
Yes, so I met a girl that worked for Playboy and she connected me with them that was how that happened and I had never taken my clothes off, um for to be photographed ever I'd never replied nudes I'd never.

16:08.71
Bruce Anthony
Are a.

16:13.24
Jo Weatherford 
Even my high fashion work which I didn't do a lot of that I'm I'm not tall enough and I was never thin enough. Um to do that I was definitely built for linundgerie bikini that was going to be the market I was going to be in um and so. It was really really really uncomfortable the first time but it's kind of like that analogy of the frog that goes in the lukewarm water and then it just gets.

16:37.78
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, right.

16:40.53
Jo Weatherford 
Degree by degree and it boils That's really how it happened for me. It was like oh just take your top off. Oh and then you found them and then oh, we're gonna do this and it was a slow. It was a slow process. Um for me to be comfortable with that but the drinking helped again I would show up.

16:48.45
Bruce Anthony
E.

16:58.80
Jo Weatherford 
On these sets and be really intoxicated. There's no inhibitions and just taking direction and the best way I can explain it is like my soul had just left my body and I I Really like this analogy when you think about a essential oil like.

17:02.39
Bruce Anthony
Here.

17:09.96
Bruce Anthony
A.

17:17.92
Jo Weatherford 
Ah, lavender essential oil. How do they make that right? They take a plant and then they soak it in Ethanol so they take a plant and they soak it in alcohol and they extract the essence out of it. So for me I was that plant I soaked myself in alcohol.

17:24.54
Bruce Anthony
K.

17:36.36
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

17:36.57
Jo Weatherford 
And my essence left you know and so here I am this like hologram of myself just living in this outside world that's telling me I'm pretty. That's throwing money at me. That's you know all of a sudden I started getting filled up by that and. Forgot what mattered to me and there wasn't really a self there to have a problem with it anymore. So that's kind of how it it happened and like I said working for Playboy a lot of it was elegant and classy and respectful and um.

17:55.33
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, he.

18:14.59
Jo Weatherford 
I don't ah don't regret it would I ever do it sober? No so those both of those things exist and I can look back on the experience and be grateful for the opportunity. It gave me at that time I don't know what the hell I would have done if I wasn't doing that.

18:32.23
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

18:33.80
Jo Weatherford 
Really I don't I shudder to think I probably would have gotten in a relationship and let somebody take care of me and that brings a lot of potential danger and into a woman's experience when you rely on a man for survival they can do.

18:47.30
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

18:52.58
Jo Weatherford 
A lot and of damage you know because you're you're kind of stuck on which I found that out later in my marriage. That's a whole another worry. So at the time I mean Thank God I was independent I was making money I was able to take care of myself because.

19:01.74
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

19:11.24
Jo Weatherford 
As bad as my alcoholism got that was the only way I was going to be able to do it. So I mean kudos to me for finding a way to make it work at that time right.

19:17.71
Bruce Anthony
Right? So how bad did it get the addiction.

19:25.83
Jo Weatherford 
Um, multiple suicide attempts bad I Really did not want to be around anymore the depression and the anxiety and the hopelessness that I felt.

19:26.71
Bruce Anthony
A.

19:35.58
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

19:37.33
Jo Weatherford 
Was excruciating and it wasn't a cry for help. It was like I genuinely didn't want to be here anymore and I tried therapy I had tried rehab I tried so many ways to get sober I would get three months or I would get six months or one time I even got a year and a half and I just couldn't do it. And so talk about the most devastating feeling of when you've have any length of sobriety and then you go back out like and unless you've had that experience. You'll never know the shame and devastation of those moments and they just. Havoc on your resolve and your faith and your trust and your belief that you'll ever ever be able to have a different life. Every relapse is just gutting and I try to work with people on that of not letting it be.

20:22.85
Bruce Anthony
Why.

20:29.11
Jo Weatherford 
Like we never lose the time of sobriety that we have. We always always have that and the fact that you are in that energy you're in that resonance of sobriety for a period of time means that that can be your truth. So I Wish I would have had somebody really fighting for me advocating for me and telling me. What I needed to hear but I couldn't yet believe which is all of that time matters. Um and helping me reframe it more for the positive and it's not like spiritual bypassing bullshit of find the silver lining and everything is Great. It's not that it really. Is powerful any amount of time that we have when we don't use alcohol as a coping mechanism changes us and it's powerful and we're learning and we never lose that even if we go back out.

21:17.33
Bruce Anthony
So I Want to go back to some of these some of these really dark moments where you have multiple suicide attempts you're in this really dark place when did you come out of it. Like you said you had these relapses but when was there a time when you said okay I'm done with this because you've gone from the point where you were younger and you said I'll grow out of this. But now you've gotten to the point where you're attempting suicide so where was that. That marker where was that point where you said art I need to get help and I need to get help now.

21:54.30
Jo Weatherford 
So it was thirteen years ago and like so many people my rebirth came from one of the darkest experiences of my life I was dating a guy that played for the Yankees and I was in Tampa for spring training. He and I got in a big fight. We were at a nightclub I tried to make him jealous I got this other dude's number. So then I'm flying out early I'm staying at the intercontinental hotel I call this dude just to meet me for dinner and that really was all I wanted I just didn't want to be alone. Like call this random guy to meet me for dinner and it was weird because I was actually sober for me I'd only add a few glasses of wine which was relatively sober as far as I was concerned we went to dinner and I woke up in my.

22:37.97
Bruce Anthony
A.

22:48.40
Jo Weatherford 
Hotel room in the bathtub. The sheets had been stripped I knew I had been assaulted so when we were at dinner he had roof feed me and then told the hotel that you know like whatever he was carrying me up to my room. He had my room key all that. So whats. Interesting about this experience though and why it changed me was it was the first time in my life I felt compassion for myself.

23:14.40
Bruce Anthony
Yes.

23:17.77
Jo Weatherford 
Every other time and unfortunately there were others I was like this is my fall I brought it on I deserve this. This is what happens to girls like me and I would just assume all the responsibility and this happens a lot when women or men are violated because. The energy of shame is created in that moment if I perpetrate against you shame is created. The thing is the perpetrators don't assume it right? So Somebody's got to pick that shame up and the victims do so. Not only do you have.

23:44.53
Bruce Anthony
There.

23:51.15
Jo Weatherford 
You know the shame of the perpetrator that you're holding but then the shame of what happen and then the grief and it it just is so difficult to find yourself after those moments but for me I don't know why I don't know how I didn't cause it. Um. All I know is that I felt compassion for myself for the very first time and I didn't change right away and I didn't go to rehab right away but that was the opening a seed was planted that maybe I could love myself.

24:24.66
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

24:26.54
Jo Weatherford 
And that maybe I could heal and that maybe my life could be different and whenever I share this story I remember 1 time I shared it at auburn university and I had a young woman come up to me afterwards and say I loved your talk? Um, but 1 thing I want to talk to you about is. <unk>ve never had that experience I was raped and I've never felt compassion for myself. So anytime I tell this story I just also want anybody. That's listening you know that that has that same experience of all I've ever felt is my own self-hatred is like.

24:52.50
Bruce Anthony
A.

25:04.30
Jo Weatherford 
You are so precious and that wasn't your fault and just know that even if you can't believe it all. Believe it for you that that shouldn't never happen to you and I believe that that compassion can come and if it hasn't yet just keep seeking help. You know like.

25:13.40
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah.

25:23.98
Jo Weatherford 
Therapists Coaches Plant Medicine Jo Weatherfordurneys I don't care whatever it is like make that your number one priority that self love that compassion because that should never happen to any of us. So that was my opening and eventually. I went to rehab I went to an aversion therapy clinic which I'm so sad is shut down now so you cannot get this therapy anymore in America um I do have the numbers of the medical staff though if there's ever anybody that wants to invest in 1 let me know.

25:45.62
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

25:57.17
Jo Weatherford 
But aversion therapy I show up, they inject me with this horrific cocktail that makes you have the flu chills nausea vomiting and then you go into this little room and they fill a glass full of epicac.

26:04.38
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

26:13.23
Jo Weatherford 
So if any of you have kids and they ingest anything poisonous. You know you usually give somebody a tablespoon and it induces vomiting I drink a water glasss full of that shit and then they start pouring you alcoholic drinks. So I'm slamming 20 drinks.

26:19.37
Bruce Anthony
A.

26:31.59
Jo Weatherford 
Vomiting like the exorcist for just 20 hours it's gnarly and then at the end of it. They take you in a room and they soak a rag in alcohol and make you smell it and you're just soul sick so nauseous. It's like the worst timeout ever. It was.

26:47.45
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

26:50.52
Jo Weatherford 
Hell and then the next day they would take you in a small room and they would do a dose of prophenol and truth serum so proenol is what Michael Jackson overdosed on and but so what they would do is they would put me to sleep but not all the way and they would do counseling with my unconscious.

27:00.85
Bruce Anthony
You.

27:10.20
Jo Weatherford 
So I would wake up an hour later and then listen to a counseling session that I don't remember doing with my unconscious and when I was under they would put affirmations like you don't drink you don't crave alcohol. So I did those 2 treatments alternating for ten days I walked out of there I've never drank since I've never wanted to I don't go to meetings I don't try I don't miss it I don't white knuckle it I just don't drink just like I wouldn't pick up nail polished remover and drink that I don't drink alcohol but I don't try not to. It completely. We rewired my brain and it saved my life and I will forever be grateful for that experience.

27:47.30
Bruce Anthony
Um, either.

27:53.46
Bruce Anthony
Well, we're grateful for you sharing that very painful story. Thank you and so many people out there not just women but men men can can learn from what you just said and the recovery but we're going to get into some of your work.

28:04.21
Jo Weatherford 
Yes.

28:13.30
Bruce Anthony
Next.

28:19.67
Bruce Anthony
So Jo Weatherforde you get clean, but you're in recovery, you're all, you're costly in recovery correct. It's it's always a a recovery so you're in recovery and you go back to school. Can you tell me a little bit about that.

28:36.56
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, the time I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do um but so often we we teach what we need to learn right? So I was really interested in Psychology and mental Health I wanted to help people obviously addiction was. A focus of mine. Um, and so that's what I did I went back to school and I did my master's in human development and family studies I actually worked in treatment centers and I burned out so quickly.

29:05.93
Bruce Anthony
You know.

29:08.23
Jo Weatherford 
I Really did um I went oh my God What did I do I've I've been an addict my whole life and now I put myself right back in that energy I just escaped it and now here I am and so then I reinvented myself again and.

29:15.38
Bruce Anthony
A.

29:26.44
Jo Weatherford 
I Went to work for the University and I thought I thought it would be different with college students because they didn't have any problems and um I learned real quickly that is not the case. But what I will say about working with that population is they have more resources they have more tools. Addiction isn't that advanced yet. Um, where they've had hellacious health consequences from it so on and so Forth. So It is an opportunity for earlier intervention but I was humbled real quickly with the amount of trauma that these students were carrying and dealing with.

29:51.10
Bruce Anthony
Right.

30:03.70
Bruce Anthony
A.

30:04.71
Jo Weatherford 
Um, so I was naive to think that that population was Immune from the real horrific hurts of the world and um I worked with them though I developed a lot of drug and alcohol intervention programs and ran the counseling then I taught.

30:24.30
Jo Weatherford 
Addiction courses for 12 years which was the most beautiful way for me to stay connected to recovery and to give back and to learn you know I mean these students taught me as much as I ever learned from them I got to work a lot with athletics and Greek life.

30:33.42
Bruce Anthony
There.

30:42.16
Jo Weatherford 
Going in and having those real conversations about you know who you are and who you want to be and the highest version of self and how you're showing up in the world and that cognitive dissonance of. You know who I want to be is this but how I'm acting is here and how do we bridge that gap you know and 1 of the things I saw on the college campus that I do want to highlight? Um, just the the absolute man-hating that that came out. Um.

30:59.62
Bruce Anthony
A.

31:14.10
Jo Weatherford 
Some of it I think was the metoo movement some of it was a lot of things being exposed that needed to be exposed a hundred percent but so many times the pendulum swings so far to the other side. You know as society is collectively trying to find balance that I was working with these young men. And you know they thought they were all rapists and they were all bad people. It was just the the education was very very negative. Where for me, it's like young men are protectors the conversation. Really should have been geared towards like rise into your power and when you see that shit happening do something because people will listen to you. You are a leader you have influence you have a voice like I don't know so it was it was a really um, interesting time in academia.

31:52.48
Bruce Anthony
Here he.

32:06.71
Jo Weatherford 
Right? Then you know all of a sudden campuses are needing to investigate sexual assault and there was just a lot in the field during that time. So I'm really appreciative of it. I Loved my time there and I also um. Was kind of coming to an end with it when Covid hit and that everybody's got a covid story but mine I had been teaching online for five semesters I was over it.

32:28.99
Bruce Anthony
A.

32:40.52
Jo Weatherford 
Um, my ex-husband and I owned a very large martial arts school. We had 700 students when covid hit and I was like oh my god this doesn't come back. You know what made us special having a hundred kids in ah you know training together.

32:49.29
Bruce Anthony
A.

32:56.59
Jo Weatherford 
Is gonna be our detriment like people are not gonna want that now and so my ex and I made the decision to just sell everything we sold our home building business I quit the university sold cars furniture everything and moved to Mexico um, and it was. It was at that time I took a couple years off trying to think like what do I really want to do and how can I best be of service in the addiction field and so what I do now is I go and I speak I advocate a lot for harm reduction and I go and speak to police and courts and. Supreme court justices advocating for treatment over punitive sentencing and drug courts around the country. So I love going and speaking on addiction that really is my my passion to get out there and speak with my clients. I do much different work 1 on one I have a couple that battle addiction but that's not really what we're working on my main work is on intimacy. So really dropping into our hearts living from that space emotional intelligence some.

33:53.43
Bruce Anthony
A.

34:10.69
Jo Weatherford 
But my 1 ne-on- one coaching is that a lot of work with couples deepening intimacy. How do we explore conflict through the lens of I love you I choose you. You're my partner. How do we get attuned first create a safe space so that our defenses aren't getting flared in them. Abandonment issues aren't getting worked up. You know how do we create a safe container to then be able to have really honest conversations and that goes back to the Jo Weatherfordurnalism the storytelling you know like how can we create such ah a intact safe dynamic between 2 people that they can speak.

34:40.67
Bruce Anthony
Spray.

34:48.60
Jo Weatherford 
Their truth and be heard. It's really magnificent.

34:50.56
Bruce Anthony
So I have a theory and you can disprove it or back it up I'm just gonna put it out there that people that suffer from addiction and their variety forms of addiction.

34:57.66
Jo Weatherford 
Hey.

35:07.23
Bruce Anthony
Right? And I know somebody personally who's addicted to working out. Um that these forms of addiction come from a place of them internally not being safe, not feeling safe. They be safe physically emotionally or mentally and so it seems like. What you're dealing with doing with those clients is trying to make them feel safe in their emotions so that they can share because not being safe in your emotions can lead to escape like escaping to a bottle or escaping into a. Pills or escaping to anything that can be destructive and anything can be destructive when you do too much of it. So what do you think about that theory is that is that whole water is that like Bruce I don't know was you talking about that.

35:59.38
Jo Weatherford 
Now I Love how you articulate that and I completely agree I mean for me addiction is a maladaptive coping Mechanism. It starts with the intention of safety and pleasure and feeling okay within ourselves and the problem with Most. Addictive. Whether it's substances you know behaviors whether it's porn shopping working out whatever it is right as it works until it doesn't So. There's a point of diminishing returns but whatever feeling we're trying to create or avoid the thing does successfully initially like for me.

36:25.56
Bruce Anthony
A.

36:34.17
Bruce Anthony
A.

36:37.59
Jo Weatherford 
When I drank I finally felt at home in my body and it's all nervous system regulation I mean that when we talk about safety that is an intact regulated nervous system and so I can become the world's greatest pharmacist when my chemicals my adrenaline and my cort.

36:42.77
Bruce Anthony
A.

36:49.53
Bruce Anthony
Yeah here.

36:57.20
Jo Weatherford 
Are jacked and I'm trying to calm down I can take these substances and I can manipulate my own chemistry you know and it's so fascinating though when you look at what substances somebody is using. You know if it's a.

37:03.50
Bruce Anthony
You know.

37:13.40
Jo Weatherford 
Stimulant what experience they're trying to create versus the depressant versus porn or anything else right? But I love how Gabor mate says we need to start asking? What's right with the addiction because when we can reframe it.

37:26.38
Bruce Anthony
He.

37:31.35
Jo Weatherford 
Into that standpoint of what does this do for you? What is the experience you are looking to have that this creates granted with Horrific negative consequences. What is it. You're looking to feel and then how can we recreate that in a way that doesn't have such dire negative consequences.

37:48.26
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah.

37:50.29
Jo Weatherford 
But I really believe it every addiction originates in pain and it all comes from wanting to start feeling something or to stop and what's fascinating to me is when we look at the stigma which still is so rampant in society. It's like.

37:59.25
Bruce Anthony
Um.

38:05.29
Jo Weatherford 
If I'm snowboarding I'm in tahoh right now right? I'm snowboarding and I break my leg and I go to the hospital and they give me Oxycotton because I'm in pain. Nobody's going to look at me and judge me like I'm an addict and a bad person. But if I'm going through a divorce and I start popping opiates.

38:17.37
Bruce Anthony
Right.

38:24.16
Jo Weatherford 
Because they give me peace of mind or I start slamming heroin all of a sudden I'm a junkie and a piece of shit even though it is the exact same substance. It's all opiates used for the exact same reason Pain relief.

38:29.36
Bruce Anthony
A.

38:38.57
Bruce Anthony
Right.

38:41.40
Jo Weatherford 
And if we take a brain image of somebody with a broken leg and put it next to a brain image of somebody with a broken heart pain is pain the brain lights up the same and we're all looking for relief and so if we can just stop with the.

38:50.31
Bruce Anthony
A.

38:59.20
Jo Weatherford 
Sane amount of judgment now I'm not saying don't especially if you're involved with somebody with addiction. Don't have boundaries don't protect yourself. Don't get irritated or angry or cut people off I'm not saying any of that I'm just saying when we really look at addiction.

39:06.90
Bruce Anthony
Right.

39:16.10
Jo Weatherford 
Just having that compassion for people and go yeah I get it because we're all going through something and we're all looking for escape routes and so certain people are going to be more inclined. You know to go those different directions but that is what it's about is.

39:18.33
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

39:27.48
Bruce Anthony
There.

39:34.81
Jo Weatherford 
Trying to cope.

39:35.30
Bruce Anthony
So in your extensive work going all the way back to working in Rehab centers after your your recovery and and to your work now. Obviously you can't give specifics but where there. Identifiable moments when you're working with people that that either gave you great Great Jo Weatherfordy or just broke your heart.

40:03.88
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, absolutely um, some of the ones that break my heart the most are when I'm working with somebody moving the grief and trauma of death. It's so powerful to witness somebody grieve.

40:14.92
Bruce Anthony
A.

40:22.80
Jo Weatherford 
And some of it is selfish right? because then as a practitioner as a clinician I get to sit there and I get to be humbly reminded that Love is the only thing that matters and all of this bullshit is simply just nonsense. But when you.

40:33.86
Bruce Anthony
Are.

40:41.27
Jo Weatherford 
Really get to tap in and somebody is so vulnerable and shares the experience of loving so much and losing someone. Um the finality to it and and just that the purest expression of grief in those moments.

40:57.54
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

40:59.63
Jo Weatherford 
I don't want to say it breaks my heart because it also fills my heart to know that that much love existed I have a client right now who lost his wife to cancer two years ago they have 8 children. He is a beautiful man. He is running 3 companies he is and.

41:03.80
Bruce Anthony
We ask.

41:18.19
Jo Weatherford 
Exceptional father and so getting to watch him make sense of this senseless experience. This woman was was the love of his life for 30 years you know those those stories and those um.

41:22.92
Bruce Anthony
A.

41:29.20
Bruce Anthony
A.

41:34.82
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, moments of connection where I get to really really be with somebody in their pain in that way. Those are powerful. Um, but they're also my greatest Jo Weatherfordy. So it's the same you know because you so you yeah, it's like somebody in there complete like ah, there's just nothing that gets us more present than pain.

41:44.47
Bruce Anthony
Right is the same. Ah.

41:52.86
Bruce Anthony
A.

41:54.41
Jo Weatherford 
And to me the pain of death and death too can also be death of a relationship. You know when my marriage ended. Um, that's ah, that's another form of pain when that person's still alive but but it's not the same anymore you know and you're grieving somebody. That's still living down the street.

41:59.51
Bruce Anthony
Inhale.

42:07.46
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah. You.

42:14.23
Jo Weatherford 
Um, it's very very powerful work though and if we can just learn to be with our emotions and not let them become. You know our reality like if I can feel my grief not become my grief if I can channel my anger not become my anger I mean these are our greatest tools.

42:26.90
Bruce Anthony
Yes, okay.

42:34.17
Jo Weatherford 
For expansion. The problem goes. Oh I can't feel that we shut Off. We close off, we grab a drink we get into another relationship the inability to sit with and let these really transformative moments Do what they need to do I mean that's the thing with my clients I'm like let it. Fucking have its way with you. Don't waste this you know because that's that is that next level up is so huge if we will just have the courage to sit in it and it will not last forever.

42:52.58
Bruce Anthony
The.

43:06.85
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, Wow Wow! That's that's really dope and deep. Um, so you also do Ted talks. You. Do you give Speeches? um, has there been a time where you've given a speech. And you can see in a person's eyes that what you're saying is really resignating and you're like ah I know that look I'm I'm I'm changing your life right Now. Um has that happened to you and how does that feel.

43:38.34
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah I mean I don't want to sound egotistical but it happens all the time because the way I'm speaking about addiction from a place of healing inspires people because it's it's 1 thing you know to be a dynamic speaker but it's another when you actually embody.

43:47.92
Bruce Anthony
A.

43:56.88
Jo Weatherford 
What your message is and when I go out there and I'm talking about look if I can do it. Anyone can do it and sobriety doesn't have to Suck. You can have the most magnificent life and people feel that and that instills hope So I I get to have that experience a lot and that's why I enJo Weatherfordy doing it is because. Watching somebody light up in that Way. There's no greater gift I mean it's that's conversion at the highest level you know feeling Jo Weatherfordy for somebody else's experience but I'll tell you my most interesting story was when I did my Ted talk.

44:21.54
Bruce Anthony
In here.

44:27.34
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

44:31.20
Jo Weatherford 
And of course the whole point of it was rewriting the story of my addiction and finding the beauty in addiction all this right? and so the woman that went after me lost her son in Sandy Hook so backstage if you can imagine she comes up to me and says I really loved your talk and it was very inspiring but how do I find the beauty in my six year old being shot at.

44:49.99
Bruce Anthony
Life.

44:56.57
Bruce Anthony
Here.

45:07.84
Jo Weatherford 
And this was eight years ago and I froze and I didn't know what to say I knew I still believed I still believed what I had to say but I didn't know how to articulate it and so I just gave her a hug and we just cried. But what I wish I would have said to that woman is this. The beauty was not in that act. The beauty is in your courage to go and talk about gun violence. The beauty is in the fact that that six year old had you as a mother such a fucking badass woman I guarantee 6 years

45:27.43
Bruce Anthony
Wow! yep.

45:36.60
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, he.

45:45.27
Jo Weatherford 
Of love and connection and just just a happy innocent child and he didn't know what was coming. You know what I mean and that life was cut short and that is tragic and awful and and just heartbreaking but the beauty is in that little boy's life and the beauty is in.

46:01.92
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

46:04.74
Jo Weatherford 
The lives that she impacts all the time talking about this and going out and working with other families that have lost their children that is where the beauty is and I wish every single day that I could have said that but I didn't have access to it yet I just didn't um, but that was.

46:18.82
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

46:24.58
Jo Weatherford 
That was definitely my most powerful impact moment after a speech.

46:28.90
Bruce Anthony
Okay, well Jo Weatherforde what's next. What's the future hold for you.

46:34.25
Jo Weatherford 
Great question. Um, you know I'm very much a believer in some psychedelic practices and plant innocent therapies for healing ptsd. Um.

46:42.90
Bruce Anthony
He.

46:48.44
Jo Weatherford 
I Do a lot with my clients around mic or dosing psilocybin I see phenomenal results. Not for everybody set and setting is very important. These are beautiful medicinal medicines never to be disrespected or abused or taken carelessly. But. Honestly, when I think about what's next and what I'm most excited about it is the work that maps is doing in all these other organizations to start making these medicines available to people in a safe way that there is intense integration afterwards. It's really really important.

47:22.65
Bruce Anthony
E.

47:26.90
Jo Weatherford 
Um, but I'm actually leaving in may I'll be in Nicaragua for two weeks doing it I began which is a shamanic plant medicine. A very intense experience but I really want to go and do it because with the opiate crisis being what it is.

47:29.48
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

47:43.10
Bruce Anthony
He.

47:45.59
Jo Weatherford 
Igain can be a potential treatment option so ibegain actually ah eradicates the opiate withdrawal and then can reset the receptors.

47:47.67
Bruce Anthony
And. Oh mocha.

47:58.82
Jo Weatherford 
And again there needs to be a lot of other work I think we get into trouble when we think anything is going to be this miracle cure one and done like oh I did Ayhuasca and I was fixed forever and that's a dangerous message to tell people. Um, but I do believe that ibigain is going to become.

48:04.80
Bruce Anthony
Right.

48:15.36
Jo Weatherford 
A very very very important treatment especially for opiates and I never talk about things I haven't done myself so I'm going to go get my ass kicked in Nicaragua for ten days so that I can come out and speak about it because it's really really.

48:27.70
Bruce Anthony
Um.

48:34.17
Jo Weatherford 
Unbelievable, what is happening in fentanyl has been so halacious, but there is a new substance that just hit America um, and sadly I know about this because my dear friends lost their son.

48:46.50
Bruce Anthony
A.

48:49.23
Jo Weatherford 
And this young man tried to be as responsible as possible. He tested for fentanyl he bought drugs on the dark web and they came back. No fentanyl everything should be fine. He took a couple pills started not feeling well friends watched him you know? okay. Few hours later. Yeah, not feeling great, but okay, no problem and never woke up so it took four months for the Autopsy because this is a brand new synthetic opioid because you know that's what these assholes do they just manipulate the molecular structure.

49:12.35
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

49:16.59
Bruce Anthony
Are.

49:23.75
Jo Weatherford 
And so then you can't test for it. It's a new substance. Well this new one that just hit America he was the fourth death so they just figured out what it is it is anywhere from a hundred to 800 times more powerful than fentanyl. Yeah, so it's.

49:38.31
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

49:43.45
Jo Weatherford 
It's scary and you know I never I don't like scare tactics I don't I don't I don't believe they work but you just cannot buy drugs anymore and it's like it sucks I feel bad for you I Just imagine being a teacher and being like.

49:56.78
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, hold on to all the kids out there that that could be listening. We are not encouraging you encouraging you to go use drugs. That's not what we're saying what we're saying is back in the day back in the day.

50:01.10
Jo Weatherford 
You know what? I mean.

50:07.92
Jo Weatherford 
No, not at all and back to say what.

50:14.70
Bruce Anthony
You know you could get some drugs and know what you was getting but now you just never know it's a crapshoot.

50:18.77
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, like a hundred percent you can't ever not 1 time ever do it because this stuff is everywhere and people are cutting. They're always going to prioritize money and i.

50:27.26
Bruce Anthony
In here.

50:34.17
Jo Weatherford 
Think like why would a drug dealer. Want there to I mean if if somebody died from your product. You think that that would kind of like kill your business and it's actually the opposite So when I was working at University Yeah, we would have deaths from Fentanyl and it would actually like.

50:42.80
Bruce Anthony
Yes, the opposite.

50:51.42
Jo Weatherford 
Then people knew that they're these people's supply worked I'm like oh my God This is so unbelievably twisted. So I mean a God Bless You just can't do it once you don't get to have that experience like we did you just built.

50:54.24
Bruce Anthony
Anything.

51:06.58
Bruce Anthony
Now you can't you can't take it back. You can't take it back woo.

51:11.37
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, and we cannot undo that healing is always possible except death and I mean yeah, it just you cannot mess up 1 time.

51:21.41
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, no I don't think they discovered that the healing from death and well they they theorize is zombies and I I don't want to live that life where the healing from death the zombies walk around but on a serious note. What would you like to leave the audience with today.

51:29.21
Jo Weatherford 
He.

51:39.22
Jo Weatherford 
Yeah, learn to sit in your stuff. You know we we can talk about get into therapy and go do this retreat or cut back on work or eat better or move your body and all these things which are very important.

51:42.30
Bruce Anthony
Who.

51:57.30
Jo Weatherford 
We need to be doing all of those things and being able to sit in your shit and just get uncomfortable and learn how to hold yourself in that that is the real medicine. If I can be feeling anxiety or grief or shame and I can hold myself with reverence while feeling those emotions that to me that's interesting. That's what I want. That's how you become indestructible.

52:27.74
Bruce Anthony
Um.

52:30.86
Jo Weatherford 
Because life is gonna life and humans are Goingnna human and you're gonna get your feelings hurt and things are goingnna go well and then they're not and you're going to be on top of the world and then you're going to deal with death I mean everybody is going to lose the people that they love I mean we don't like to think about this but we're the only species that knows it's goingnna die you know I mean.

52:48.33
Bruce Anthony
Me yeah.

52:50.83
Jo Weatherford 
That's a big burden to carry like so we are going to be faced with intense emotional pain. So when those opportunities arise be with it feel it move it through your body and the thing with trauma is this when it is witnessed. By somebody compassionately. It can flow out of us. It doesn't become a hijacking crippling Experience. You know, find somebody that you love that can meet you there that can hold you. But have the courage to feel it and have the courage to get uncomfortable. We are not meant to be happy all the time that is a social media advertising illusion we are complex dynamic beings and we are meant.

53:36.68
Bruce Anthony
A.

53:43.63
Jo Weatherford 
To Feel Pain. We don't need to suffer but pain is there to tell us when we need to make a change or when we need to grieve like I'll give you an example I'm in a marriage. It's not going well and I get Insomnia So What do I Do. Instead of going like Wow, there's something not working I need to investigate with truth I need to deepen into what's really going on I start medicating myself so I could sleep so now of a sudden I'm sleeping I've just eradicated the symptom but I missed the message All of our emotions are messages.

54:09.59
Bruce Anthony
And.

54:15.56
Bruce Anthony
A.

54:20.37
Jo Weatherford 
To help us get back into alignment nobody likes to feel unpleasant emotions. But if we can get in them learn what we need to adapt take that next right action I mean that's freedom and that for me is my most important thing. Being an addict for so long. Freedom is my jam and I will commit to that and if it takes me thirty days of sitting in hell to get there I'm for it.

54:48.40
Bruce Anthony
I love that I love and I know the audience will love that Thank you so much. Jo Weatherforde. Thank you so much for being on the show I really appreciate it. This was a really good and important conversation that I know that my audience is really gonna. EnJo Weatherfordy embrace and learn from. So. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Absolutely.

55:05.58
Jo Weatherford 
Thank you for having me.